Redmond (WA) – There is no denying that the initial news about Windows 7, Vista’s successor, weren’t especially great for Microsoft. Vista is by far not as successful as Microsoft would have hoped and Windows 7 will have to carry the company until a completely new operating system, speculated to be code-named Midori, will be available. So, will Windows 7 be another Vista? Will it lag behind OS X Snow Leopard? Is multi-touch UI really as great as Microsoft claims it will be?

It seems that Microsoft is now confident enough to offer a sneak peek at the new Windows features at its upcoming developer and hardware conferences in October and November. It even set up an official Windows 7 blog on which senior engineers promise to discuss the operating system with users. It is a different approach than what the company took with Vista and appears that the wave of Vista criticism has had an impact.

Microsoft said that it will publicly reveal details and "in-depth technical information" about Windows 7 to developers attending its Professional Developers Conference (PDC) set to take place from October 26-29 and at the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference (WinHEC) scheduled for November 5-7.

Writing on the new Windows 7 blog, Steven Sinofsky and Jon DeVaan, senior engineering team leaders, pledged to document the pace of development and offer a peak at Windows 7 features in the works from time to time. "With this blog we're opening up a two-way discussion about how we are making Windows 7," the company wrote. "We strongly believe that success for Windows 7 includes an open and honest, and two-way, discussion about how we balance all of these interests and deliver software on the scale of Windows. We promise and will deliver such a dialog with this blog."

It is quite apparent that Microsoft will be gauging early interest for the yet-to-be-revealed Windows 7 features and establish a measure to control or at least balance the news flow about Windows 7. Actual information coming out of this blog may actually be not as comprehensive as Windows might expect, as the authors said they will "not set expectations around the release that end up disappointing," like "features that don't make it, claims that don't stick, or support we don't provide."

So far, Microsoft kept a low profile on Windows 7 features. In terms of the base technology, we know that its kernel will be based on Windows Server 2008 kernel, which is an evolution of the Windows Vista kernel. It will keep the current driver model and will not be able to tap GPU for general-purpose computing. In short, Microsoft decided to play it safe and keep the Windows foundation in place. The new operating system comes in times when Microsoft is facing increasing competition on its own soil, especially by Apple whose OS X now leapfrogs Windows in terms of features and innovation. We can already hear Apple and pessimists saying that Windows 7 will be little more than a giant Windows Vista patch that uses multi-touch support as a sales pitch.

In fact, the only end-user feature that was promoted to this point was a multi-touch interface that will support multi-finger gestures in Windows, similar to the iPhone. Multi-touch will not be the default input method, but it will improve user interaction in all applications if the user chooses to use it. For example, you will be able to play a virtual piano by touching virtual keys on the screen, easily drag photos around the screen, rotate and zoom photos with two fingers and employ other multi-touch-based gestures to manipulate objects on the screen. The company first demonstrated these features at the WSJ's D: All Things Digital conference in May.

Microsoft is aiming Windows 7 for a late 2009 or early 2010 release (and according to our sources Q4 is the targeted time frame, since Microsoft does not want to miss the Christmas season again). If the company will be out by Christmas 2009, it will beat Apple in its own game, being the first to bring multi-touch user interface to the PC market. Apple's next OS X version dubbed Snow Leopard is schedule for an early 2009 released. For the first time, Apple's OS X won't be focused on new end-user features. Instead, Apple said it will optimize OS code, re-write it for full 64-bit support and support GPUs for general-purpose processing tasks.

OSX is not leaps ahead of anything...

Aug 15, 2008 11:26     

Linux has 99.9% of OSX features and has for years. OSX is leaps BEHIND. Comparing OSX to Windows BTW is not even hardly fair. Your comparing an OS that has to handle thousands on thousands of different pieces of hardware vs. OSX which only has to handle what Apple releases, a much easier job. Not to mention that OSX is just a clone rip off of Linux. OSX is nice, I don't argue that, but don't give credit where it isn't due.

crawlgsx report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +57

As soon as apple let to know more details..

Aug 15, 2008 11:32     

Yes, Microsoft will let us know more details about windows 7 as soon as Apple let know more Snow Leopard features. I hope Microsoft really desing this OS from the ground up and not just put another name to windows vista (like Mohave experiment).
viktor report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -2

re: OSX is not leaps ahead of anything....

Aug 15, 2008 11:34     

100% agree. Even if nothing was changed from Vista to 7, how could it even be suggested that it would potentially lag behind Snow Leopard?? Quantifying what is condsidered 'lag' would help of course, but i sure don't see anything in the business world where Windows is lagging behind OSX...
critic report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +7

in reply to crawlgsx's comment

Aug 15, 2008 11:48     

You know what, crawlgsx? I think you are dead on target with your comment :) OS X kernel is indeed a variant of UNIX and the whole operating system is actually UNIX with higher-level services, MAc APIs, and applications running on top of it. And it's true that it borrowed some of its UI features from Linux and other UNIX variants. For example, cube rotation during fast user switching? Got that already in Ubuntu, thank you very much. But I wouldn't go so far to say that OS X is Linux rip-off because any OS with UNIX code base and nice UI could be called Linux rip-off. Both Linux and OS X have many overlaping features, some of them are Apple-unique and others were available on Linux for quite some time. But OS X is not just Linux with GUI on top. It is unique, different platform that happens to run both Macintosh and UNIX software. I agree that Linux has many more features than OS X. Apple is very good at hand-picking certain set of features that customers use the most and perfecting them in their own, unique way. It works for them very well. Agreed, OS X has to cater for a very limited set of Apple-made hardware. The fact that Apple makes the hardware, the operating system and applications under one roof is perhaps its most significant advantage. True, it isn't even fair comparing OS X and Windows that has to cover for many different configurations. However, these are the two commercial operating systems that compete for users so I guess that comparison is legit. Users really don't care about what's inside and what are the intricancies of an OS. Geeks like you and me or tech freaks may find it interesting, yes. But ordinary user just wants to have somethings that works. Isn't that exactly what Apple has been delivering to its users for years? Anyway, appreciate your comment. Stay cool.

Christian zibreg report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +30

Even if Windows 7 was a better version of vista...

Aug 15, 2008 11:51     

"We can already hear Apple and pessimists saying that Windows 7 will be little more than a giant Windows Vista patch that uses multi-touch support as a sales pitch." How is that any different from what Apple is doing with Snow leopard? ", Apple said it will optimize OS code, re-write it for full 64-bit support and support GPUs for general-purpose processing tasks." Though the 64bit and GGPU support is very tempting

BDF report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

MS should "offer" Win 7 as an upgrade to Windows Vista ultimate users

Aug 15, 2008 12:14     

I bought Vista Ultimate x64 the moment it got available. I thought to the "no reboot feature" alone was worth it. The truth: I reboot at every patch, even Office ones I think. They also promised there would be an option to recompile an image DVD to reinstall the OS with all patches. That feature didn't make it to RTM. They also promised one computer would download the updates, and would release them to other PCs via LAN (one download, multiple PCs patched). That feature also didn't make it. I'm not sure I'm remembering official MS press releases, or if it was speculation, but I'll be much more cautious about the feature set for their next OS... Cheers, Eric

Eric report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +3

RE: OSX is not leaps ahead of anything...

Aug 15, 2008 12:20     

critic, I am not trying to make the case for OS X here but Windows market lead with consumers and business world has nothing to do with its qualities. Desktop wars ended in the 80s, Microsoft won and since then Windows became pretty much computing standard. However, not everything is Windows-based nor it should be. I just wish that we separate Windows' market lead from its features and qualities as a product. If we are going to judge a product by market share, then we are saying that BMWs sucks and that Firefox is inferior to IE. In my opinion, echoed by many PC reviewers and pretty much the whole industry, OS X is at the moment the best consumer-oriented desktop operating system in the world. Yes, it is gaining popularity and switching some Windows PC users but nobody is saying it will replace Windows tomorrow or even in the distant future. When it comes to Vista and OS X, Microsoft simply copied some features that OS X had since day one, meaning 2000, and many features recently introduced in Tiger and Leopard. I would never claim back in 2000 that Apple's OS 9 was better than Win 98 because it wasn't. But nowadays, Vista just can't compete for end-user, make computing fun and let you finish the task at hand as efficiently and elegantly as OS X can. Pretty much everything that Vista has can be achieved in OS X more easily. However OS X has some unique features that Windows lacks. We can discuss them in a separate article, but I think you know it yourself what these features are. Just beacuse Windows is predominantly used for business and home computing doesn't mean it's better. I just wish Microsoft stops copying others and delivers the OS that is their own product, with innovations that no-one else has. I don't think "me too" approach serves them well and many can certainly tell this. Many people I know do use a flavor of Windows but rarely anyone of them is happy by the fact that they are forced into using the product that is half-baked compared to competing products. I think that is why so many people use Microsoft products but they dislike the company. For the record, I use both Vista and OS X on my PC and Mac machines. Thanks for your comment.

Christian zibreg report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +5

I'd rather

Aug 15, 2008 12:35     

I'd rather that they unviel the windows 7 SP 1 fixes that no doubt will be required. I like vista now - but it took SP 1. I imagine ver 7 will be the same thing.
wmcgritt report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Nice editing.

Aug 15, 2008 12:45     

"Apple's next OS X version dubbed Snow Leopard is schedule for an early 2009 released." Methinks someone should have someone proofread their work. :o)
JoeUser report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

Try managing multiple windows in Mac OS

Aug 15, 2008 13:01     

This simple thing you can do in windows is a pain in the butt on mac OS. I like Apple and I hate Mac OS (Yes you can like Apple without liking Mac OS). All these so called analysts say mac OS is so great, but I wonder how much is hype. I find Mac OS annoying to use. Simple tasks you can do in windows require you to go through 5 different menus just do the same thing in Mac OS X (I find it faster to use the command line in Mac OS most of the time). All that said I like Apple, own a mac mini (use windows on it mostly but mac os for unix from time to time), iphone, ipod, and Apple stock, but Windows is far easier to use. Oh and as far as reliability mac os crashes on me as much as windows does. Best mac crash I ever had? iTunes asked me to upgrade and the whole UI locked up, couldb't even open the stupid finder, oh and force quit? Well that just gave my a gray screen... Had to shut the mac off and reboot.

Action Jackson report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +6

Vista

Aug 15, 2008 13:02     

I find Vista to be the most stable OS to date of Windows. I would never use Mac anything and get locked into what hardware they let you use. Give me a PC that I can change mother boards and cpu or whatever and reinstall the OS. I could not wait until Vista. Now I can't wait until Windows 7.
Pomacat report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

No plans to upgrade

Aug 15, 2008 13:06     

I work for the State of NJ, I was told that there is no (immediate) plans to upgrade to Vista since there are compatibility issues with the current software being used and Vista. It is an opportunity for other operating systems to be used instead of Windows.
TomLeeM/BigWarpGuy report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Are you kidding me? OS X is far from a rip-off of ...

Aug 15, 2008 13:11     

Are you kidding me? OS X is far from a rip-off of linux. Sorry guys, your koolaid is warm. Been a linux user for more than 15 years and a windows user just as long. Only a Mac user for the past 5. Linux (desktop) was / is stale and hasn't improved in the last 5 years. Anything in linux from a usability standpoint suffers wildly and will _never_ become a platform for anyone other than technical folk that can't afford a Mac. Linux is an excellent server operating system, and the only one I actually use and trust. Desktop, it just can't compare. OS X is a fully certified UNIX OS and of course, I would love to hear you speak towards this. Unless of course you find that a beautiful and standardized interface running on the most powerful and stable operating system in the world is less functional than your Ubuntu installation. What a joke. I love how you turned the stability of OS X backwards as to say that because they choose to develop an end-to-end solution that works, is bad because they don't support crap from every 3rd world country that has a printed circuit board. Hating Mac's always comes down to price, those who can't afford it talk smack about it. I see it every day. Good luck. Diversity is great, and I am happy you will stick with linux, as your short sighted-ness is best kept far from us who actually use an Operating System to be productive. The truth is, Linux is free because nobody will pay for it. Open source is great, but eventually all of these developers wake up from their young "free hippie" world and realize they need to feed their families and move on, just in time for the next generation of free software folk to arrive and continue the cycle.

WHAT!? report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Nice censorship in these comments... I seriously d...

Aug 15, 2008 13:15     

Nice censorship in these comments... I seriously disagreed with the comments calling OS X a linux copy-cat and they were removed. Remember folk, linux was created as a free alternative to UNIX. Stop drinking that horrible koolaid. lol -- what a joke.
WHAT!? report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Windows 7 is .....

Aug 15, 2008 13:22     

In my opinion just going to be a major updated Windows Vista. I don't think that we will see much of a change from Vista to Windows 7. I think that the real change will be in Windows 8(or whatever they decide to call it).
ThomFrost report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Not even close

Aug 15, 2008 13:50     

"Apple said it will optimize OS code, re-write it for full 64-bit support" Sorry, but that's just not correct. The only thing they announced is that Power PC chips won't be supported. It's rumoured that Apple *MAY* be pulling support of 32-bit processors (including first-gen Intel-based Mac's based on Core [1] Duo chips), but that's all it is - a RUMOUR. Apple hasn't announced full details of anything like that yet. To report it as fact is just wrong. I highly doubt it's going to happen that way anyway, since those systems are less than 3 years old. Also, "FULL 64-bit" is already supported in Windows. OS X only runs the CPU in hybrid 64-bit/32-bit mode by utilizing a 32-bit kernel for compatibility reasons. There is no 64-bit performance benefit to running a CPU in that fashion because 64-bit registers can't run at native speed. Windows Vista x64 already has a 64-bit kernel, and only tasks the CPU to go into 32-bit mode on threads that require it, thereby allowing 64-bit registers to run full speed. It switches back and forth automatically. There's no "software emulation layer" required for it either. The compatibility issues that 64-bit versions of Windows face are mostly due to hardware vendors not issuing 64-bit drivers. Software compatibility is near perfect, with the exception that 16-bit threads aren't supported anymore. If every company had 64-bit drivers available for their hardware, everyone would be using the 64-bit version now. Unfortunately that's just not the case though. There are certain hardware vendors that refuse to certify their hardware (even new hardware) for Windows Vista. Logo certification means that they've done WHQL testing on both the 32-bit and 64-bit version. I usually tell people to stay aware from uncertified hardware because it's a support nightmare. OS X isn't truly 64-bit at all, and for Apple to move that way in a future minor version update would involve all hardware vendors to rewrite drivers for 64-bit because you can't use 32-bit drivers on a 64-bit kernel. I doubt that will happen, unless they want to face the same issues that Windows does.

Waethorn report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +8

Unix is a Linux rip-off?

Aug 15, 2008 13:51     

"any OS with UNIX code base and nice UI could be called Linux rip-off." That's funny. I'd say it's more like the other way around.
Waethorn report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +3

Windows 7 is

Aug 15, 2008 14:37     

a major and not a minor. Although they might begin stripping it down as they did longhorn to vista. Announce a feature set then have those features disappear. They already implemented some of the virtualization window and server 7 features into longhorn server and now vista SP1 new kernel build.
Enlighten report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -1

Macs, heh

Aug 15, 2008 14:59     

It's funny that because Macs have no games they have to use the GPU for general processing.
James report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Yawn .....

Aug 15, 2008 15:28     

wake me up when MS gets a clue
yawn report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -3

Among some of the features are...

Aug 15, 2008 15:41     

- Increased Frustration. - Driver Incompatibility. - Added CPU Utilization. - Button for selling soul to Micro$oft.
Henrik Gustavsson report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -2

So biased

Aug 15, 2008 16:00     

This article is so biased its not serious. SHould be posted under "blog" or "thoughts"
Igor report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +1

Based of 2008 Server Kernel?

Aug 15, 2008 16:39     

I know that the 2008 server kernel is just an evolution of the vista kernel. However, having used it on multiple test servers at work I have to say that it's leaps and bounds better than "evolution of vista" makes it sound. They could definitely do worse than basing it off of a server tested product. In any case I have to agree that they had better put in more unique features than just multi-touch. Here's one I would like... an option to install only a micro-kernel... I know, it's a pipe-dream but that's the beauty of dreams... they can be whatever you want.

DJM report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

My 2 cents

Aug 15, 2008 18:44     

Ok Windows wish list. Allow users to turn down the security without endless "are you sure's." Accept that most of us know what we are doing. Skins - Open source the UI so that anybody could write skins for Windows. People really don't know what is going on under the hood, but they care about looks and feel - let the open source folks do that and free up all those MS engineers to streamline the code under it all. STOP the madness - no application should EVER be able to jump in front of any other app. I am so sick of pop ups and reminders that steal the focus. Nothing like typing a whole line of text to find out that it just went into the "Windows update reminder" There is no reason we should still be dealing with this kind of crappy code.

CHris report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

Is it common here that "bad" comments get deleted?

Aug 15, 2008 20:19     

so my comment just went away for no reason. i didnt swear or anything. Well anyways here it is again This "article" is so biased it cant be taken seriously. It belongs either under blog or "opinion" or "thoughts" Its interesting if my msg gets deleted then 1)someone isnt agreeing with what i write ->just respond with arguments 2) knows its truth but tries to "hide" it ->wont help u in LT
Igor report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

hope it will rock

Aug 15, 2008 22:42     

hope it will rock my blogs:www.nutechnology.blogspot.com
swapnil report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

I feel...

Aug 15, 2008 23:40     

That Windows 7 will be just a upgraded Vista, I think that we will have to wait until Windows 8 (or whatever they will call it) to see any real new improvements. There's allot that Microsoft could and needs to do to improve Windows.
ThomFrost report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

I will wait for Windows 7 release out around in 200...

Aug 16, 2008 04:39     

I will wait for Windows 7 release out around in 2009 to 2010. I need know make sure old program - MS Office 2003, Aol Instant Messenger 5.5 or 5.9, all older/newer PC games, all older/newer programs must work on Windows 7. Put Windows XP and Vista Compatible together. Also compatible with Windows 95 to XP to bring back on Windows 7 to keep running stable than Vista have problems. DirectX 11 will be compatible with older DirectX to 9.0c. I must add this rule for Windows 7. We want old games and programs back on Windows 7 to make us very happy. I have hard time to read all NEWS on Google and make me headache really bad. Please bring all old programs and games back for our favorite memories on Windows 7 now! Don’t make people complaint! Period! If Microsoft don't do it. People will sue them without warning! People now keep watching on Microsoft what they discuss about Windows 7 info. People can make rules against Microsoft, if Microsoft made any mistake and Microsoft will get fired by a lot of people! Example: If Microsoft get fired, we can stay on Windows XP, Vista and maybe Windows 7 operating system forever(many years)!

Guest 1986 report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -4

What do we want in an OS?

Aug 16, 2008 07:20     

Who of us really wants multitouch? I mean its great for handhelds, but is it really going to help laptop users? desktop users? And is it really going to help the functionality and usefulness of anything? What ever happened to WinFS? Wasnt that supposed to be the foundation of Vista and Server'08/Longhorn? And did we really want it in the first place? Personally I would like more user control, and something more scaleable. Have an OS that strictly manages how software communicates with hardware and other software. Have that OS be bullitproof and as small as possible. Then add the other things. Add a search engine into the OS, make the default one Microsofts, but then allow for 3rd party engines to run also. Make a default GUI, but then make it easy for 3rd party gui's to replace it (3DNA, litestep etc). Basically make something basic, and then allow for companies to do innovative things with how we interact with it. This would make windows a better OS to begin with, but then it would also make other companies love and push the OS also. Sure there is the danger of market confusion for some things, but thats why windows would still have its basic useable interface for those who dont care/shouldnt mess with such things. But then we could have an OS light enough to run on a P2, but really fly on a modern system.

caeden report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

Thanks Zibreg

Aug 16, 2008 10:22     

I appreciate the response. I guess sometimes I do forget about the fact that the "average" user doesn't care about 80% of the things I care about. They want it to work, that is about it, and OSX does deliver that.(most of the time) I use it on a daily basis at work, it IS a nice OS. I just feel like it gets a little more credit than it is due, or perhaps it is that I feel Microsoft deserves a little more credit. Either way, nice article, hope to see more updates on Windows 7 soon.

crawgsx report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +1

Windows 7? Yahnnnnnnnnnn........

Aug 16, 2008 14:20     

Windows 7? Yahnnnnnnnnnn.....
Dick Johnson report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -1

crawlgsx, you're an idiot

Aug 16, 2008 16:29     

OSX has nothing to do with Linux in any way, shape, fashion or form. OSX is BSD (UNIX) based [BSD Mach 4 kernel to be exact]. Unix has existed decades longer than Linux (which is a cheap rip off of Unix) and if anyone is mimicing anyone it's Linux that is mimicing Unix.
DarkSyn report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -2

Windows 7

Aug 16, 2008 17:18     

I will wait for Windows 7 release out around in 2009 to 2010. I need know make sure old program - MS Office 2003, Aol Instant Messenger 5.5 or 5.9, all older/newer PC games, all older/newer programs must work on Windows 7. Put Windows XP and Vista Compatible together. Also compatible with Windows 95 to XP to bring back on Windows 7 to keep running stable than Vista have problems. DirectX 11 will be compatible with older DirectX to 9.0c. I must add this rule for Windows 7. We want old games and programs back on Windows 7 to make us very happy. I have hard time to read all NEWS on Google and make me headache really bad. Please bring all old programs and games back for our favorite memories on Windows 7 now! Don't make people complaint! Period! If Microsoft don't do it. People will sue them without warning! People now keep watching on Microsoft what they discuss about Windows 7 info. People can make rules against Microsoft, if Microsoft made any mistake and Microsoft will get fired by a lot of people! Example: If Microsoft get fired, we can stay on Windows XP, Vista and maybe Windows 7 operating system forever(many years)! I suggest Windows 7 need dual stylus to use on screen without get dirty. Like Nintendo DS did? Get dual stylus to do any you want to. It will be much fun to do with that. You can play your own Nintendo DS games on your computer with screen use keyboard, mouse, controller, and stylus. You like that right? We will love them.

Guest 1986 report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -3

"We can already hear Apple and pessimists saying th...

Aug 16, 2008 17:51     

"We can already hear Apple and pessimists saying that Windows 7 will be little more than a giant Windows Vista patch..." What about us Vista users? We're thinking the same damn thing - looks like we need to shell out for another "patch upgrade". As for the Apple haters: I find it amazing that people are so blinded by brand loyalty/disloyalty - if you can't see the value in each of these OS's you belong on a "133t" site with the other fanboys. IMO Apple's combo of hardware/software provides a very smooth and inviting user experience, and Windows obviously has much needed business and gaming software support. Each has its strengths and its weaknesses.

Hank report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +3

re - MS 7...yawn

Aug 16, 2008 21:04     

I left windows 1.5 years ago for Gnu/Linux Ubuntu. Never looking back.
FreeBooteR report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -1

Everyone is Forgetting the point

Aug 17, 2008 01:34     

Only fanboys really care about OS competitions. You use what works for you, plain and simple. We live in an era that is finally realizing that proprietary standards are dead. Everyone wants interoperability. No one cares what OS you run anymore as long as you can connect to a network and process data using standards that are open and defined.
TJD report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +4

in reply to crawlgsx

Aug 17, 2008 02:02     

First off, The only thing I have to agree with you on is that yes, the architecture of OS X and Windows is by far different. They are Apples and Oranges. But thats where it ends. crawlgsx, you are an uneducated idiot. You are a zealot, and I hate zealots with a passion. OS X is *NOT* a clone of linux, the last time I checked, Darwin (OS X's underpinnings) are a *BSD* base with a Mach kernel. The last time I checked BSD is nowhere related to linux in architecture, only in the notion of POSIX compliance and an implementation of the "UNIX" standard of which they are BOTH, in your words "Clone ripoffs" but in this case of SYSV. Before you go spitting off your claims and rhetoric, do your homework and bring tangible FACTS to the table. As for OS X being supposedly leaps and bounds behind linux, again, you are wrong. They are both a modern "UNIX" and as a matter of fact a lot of same tools can either be found, or can be installed or even compiled on OS X with the SAME compilers that can be found in linux and to a certain extent, on BSD. (look up xtools, you'll learn something) Oh and to further insult injury, Im writing you and telling you how much of a fool you are on a Windows XP based computer. Again, you have something to say, do your homework first then try to bring something intellgent to the table.

matt report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

Just great not

Aug 17, 2008 07:58     

I was gearing my next upgrade of my computer from and os XP to Windows 7 then a spanner is thrown in to the works a brand new os in development,Midori,so when is that coming,if in 4 to 5 years ok but less,problem.
Maurice report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Why the hype about multi-touch?

Aug 17, 2008 08:09     

Why are people getting boners over the multi-touch interface? Does everyone *really* enjoy staring at smudgy fingerprint-laden monitor screens? This is one feature that, to me, just "looks cool" and doesn't really seem to add any real functionality for the average user. Wow - I can zoom a picture using my fingers. I can scroll around while smearing my fingerprints all over the screen. ??
evt report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +4

Son of Vista

Aug 17, 2008 08:20     

Have you noticed that when MS announces a new OS, Apple stock rises. Time to buy.
Norm report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -1

multi-touch???

Aug 17, 2008 09:16     

I can't imagine a screen full of fingerprints being a quantum leap in personal computing. How 'bout a stable operating system that isn't a system hog and doesn't require a thousand dollars in computer upgrades to operate and watch movies YOU paid for?
JA report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

Multi-touch! Multi-purchase?

Aug 17, 2008 10:06     

Guess I'm getting old and don't see the wonderful benefits of multi-touch. Few people have touch enabled screens (in theory that could start to change when the OS releases). I prefer not to leave finger snail trails all over my monitor (unless I buy the optional monitor surface smug detecting wiper). Since I am running a large monitor I prefer to have it far back to reduce eyestrain. Unless my monitor is embedded in my desk (about where my keyboard is) I would have very tired arms. At most I might want a speech and gesture enabled system. Some study concluded that the mouse will be obsolete in 4 years or so. I find that laughable, certainly multi-touch is not that replacement. I can't see many applications for multi-touch other than: a restaurant table, kiosk, artist easel, medical or other imaging. No benefit to the office worker, little to the home user/gamer. No use on small displays, no use on future wall displays that are too large to easily reach. Tell you what Microsoft, make Vista run graphically equal to XP, reduce the bloat a little and I might adopt it. Ahhh, remember back when you said that Vista graphics were going to be 5x faster than XP...or was that just an old mans dream? BTW I'm 45. P.S. I suggest Microsoft slap some meat on that Vista piggy, and strip off some lard.

RWG report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +3

re: in reply to crawlgsx

Aug 17, 2008 15:50     

Thank you matt on setting him straight. I was starting to fume until i saw your post. I just hate it when people mistake unix and linux and their order. If it wasnt for at&t messing with the license I am not sure if linux would be here, or minix, or all the *nixes out there. Also, I am not quite sure if it would be as popular. The beauty of Linux is that the kernel is free to the world thanks to Linux Torvalds. POSIX does bring together a lot of the OS's out there that are unix like but they are all different. I personally run ubuntu just because it works well, and then run XP on VMware on apps I still need under windows. The problem with all of the OS's is the drivers issue. And to correct someone else out here who said that apple approves its hardware, all it matters are the chipsets they have working on OSX because you can get off the shelf hardware to replace expensive hardware that is apple branded because for example in the end the guts of a wireless card could still be broadcom chipset, or atheros.

not_a_genius report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

In response to the replies to myself

Aug 17, 2008 17:30     

Are you serious? I am an idiot and uneducated? Ok then... I will not waste my time calling names and making things up to entertain you, instead I will provide an intelligent response. I did not say OSX IS a linux clone or that it is Linux, so please do not make things up out of what I said. OSX is Debian, I know this, however a significant amount of features in OSX derived from different distro's of Linux. Anyone who has used Linux for a significant amount of time can easily see them within 5 minutes of using OSX. And where did you get that I am on a Windows XP based computer? Once again making facts up. I run multiple systems, my primary desktop at home is dual booting Ubuntu (hardy) and Vista X64. My primary computer at work triple boots XP Pro, Ubuntu, and OSX (yes OSX on a pc). My laptop also triple boots the above. At home I will admit I use mostly Vista, and as stated by Christian, it is because I don't really have much choice as a PC gamer my options are very limited. I have done plenty of "homework" But please, tell me exactly what you brought to the table other than showing that you can spew crap out of your mouth to try to make others look bad?

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Please, try to be intelligent

Aug 17, 2008 17:32     

Calling people idiots and uneducated when you do not know them nor have any clue what they know, is just childish. You seem like you know your stuff, so why don't you portray that in an intelligent way? Also I disagree that Linux is behind, and for the guy above that says it is "stale", when is the last time you updated to a new distro? Really....
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UBUNTU!

Aug 17, 2008 18:15     

Yeah well, I used Windows in a variety of forms for over 20 years. I have just installed UBUNTU and I will NEVER want to go back again. UBUNTU and the LINUX world has come a long way, it is easier to install than Windows, operates better than Windows, no more bother with Anti-Virus, no crazy pop-ups all the time, very stable, very customizable for the entry level to the advanced user. I am two weeks into UBUNTU, where I gave Vista the same chance, and went back to XP. Now XP may have the security update cord yanked soon, I will not spend another $300-$400 dollars on a system that does not work with the user.

reckert report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -2

midori is not windows 7

Aug 17, 2008 21:01     

vienna is windows 7 code name, midori is a code platform for multiprocessing applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midori_(operating_system)
bad info report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +2

MS is out.

Aug 18, 2008 00:16     

When Windows 7 comes out, I will give it a try, but that will probably be all I'll do. In the past 15 years I have used Windows, and I have had enough of the built in shortcomings a long time ago. What has been a life-saver for me in the past years, is Acronis True Image, which enables me to install a complete setup of all installed programs and setup in 5-10 minutes (depending on which machine I use it on), rather than spending a week or so on a new installation and setup. Windows is a very successful failure... and most people have simply gotten used to it's shortcomings. A few months back I bought my first Mac running on Leopard. I have not used it myself, while I am working side by side with my software developer who uses it every day. From day one, I was sold. I will not be buying a PC EVER again. I am a private person struggling to make ends meet, and my current software development project is the first for me. So money does matter when buying the hardware... which also explains why I haven't bought Mac before. But what I can see on daily basis, peeping over the developers' shoulder, is genuine QUALITY software and hardware in action, while I am constantly experiencing Windows problems of all shades and colors on . The problems generated by Windows and PC hardware, results in lost time, and time is money. The Mac just runs flawlessly, and the result is no downtime for the developer, as it was before the Mac was purchased. Windows/PC is perfect for hobbyists who don't need to rely on the machine to work perfectly all the time. Perfect for checking email on Gmail... and that's about it. I have SURVIVED until now using Windows, but I want to ENJOY using a computer, without some obligatory crash or malfunction on hourly basis. I don't look forward to having to learn to use the OSX, but I will do it. Mac or Windows... if your time ain't worth anything, by all means go with Windows. If your work and time matters, go with Mac (and you can still run Windows on the machine... why you would do that is however unknown). I tried Vista when it came out, and that was a complete waste of time and money. If Windows 7 turns out to be nothing but Vista in a new skin, then it's doomed to digital death.

Tuddi report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -3

Not impressed

Aug 18, 2008 03:09     

What good is two way communication. I'm sure loads of people raved about how good Vista looked from screenshots and then it turned out to suck hard erect penis.
Me report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -4

linuxlover

Aug 18, 2008 07:47     

i don't see why linux developers don't just look at the proposed feature list that was originally listed for Vista (ie. new file system, real OS features, GPU general use, etc) and beat MS to the punch. These were the things that people wanted for Vista, and instead we got a crappy XP makeover; and now it doesn't look like they'll get these features into Win7 either... that should give linux devs plenty of time to work out those feature and submit them to Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, whomever...

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@ MS is out.

Aug 18, 2008 13:21     

I really hate to bust your bubble but mac os runs on the same hardware as PCs. motherboard? all intel chipsets the same x38 and q33/35 that's used in "PC's", same processors (intel core 2) insert model number here (x) it's the same you get in a "PC", Memory? Yep same DDR2 or 3, video? Yep intel integrated graphics, ATI/Nivida PCI Express cards same as a PC (but don't try to buy the latest graphics cards because Mac OS doesn't support them). HardDrive? Yep same SATA II drives that are in your "PC". So if you want to complain about M$ fine do so, no argument here. But do some homework before you complain about "PC" hardware, because believe it or not YOUR MAC IS RUNNING ON PC HARDWARE.

Action Jackson report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +3

hmmmm....

Aug 18, 2008 14:35     

I remember when ThomFrost was on here saying to not buy Vista because Windows 7 would be so much better. Ohhhh Windows 7, with a 40 MB kernel and not bloated like Vista. Now he's saying Win 7 will just be a re-hash of Vista and maybe worse. The point is that no OS gets smaller over time. They all get bigger because consumers demand more more more!
Dr. Bot report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -2

LOL Yeah Right We Need Fluff...

Aug 18, 2008 16:13     

Dr. Bot - "The point is that no OS gets smaller over time. They all get bigger because consumers demand more more more!" The consumers are just begging for more fluff... Here is a hint... The consumers are begging for an OS that fully works , a product that is completely finished and timely fixes as issues arise. Not this sit on service packs for three to four years crap. And being shifted around like cattle to the next OS. Hey you did hear of Min WIN right? ::NEWS FLASH:: Adding a new DVD burning application is NOT something the consumer needs added to the OS. #1 It like the other fluff kills healthy competition #2 Forces you to pay for applications you may not need or want. If you have Nero why in the hell would I want to pay for microfluff watered down version? And please NO ONE POST ON HERE how it's included in the OS for free, or that internet explorer is free or any other application bundled in with the OS purchase... Noting in there is free... Therefore the OS can get a lot slimmer without the fluff...

Enlighten report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -2

@Enlighten

Aug 20, 2008 16:52     

lol don't bother with dr bot hes a flamer from the msn forums that has made them a Internet joke. he likes to plagiarize articles by me and others including ones from here. lol heres a link showing the flamer in his full rant http://boards.msn.com/Techboards/thread.aspx?ThreadID=751314 almost every posting is him under different accounts lol he likes to talk to him self allot.
ThomFrost report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Stupid Upper Class Vista Fan STOP !!!

Aug 21, 2008 07:10     

If I see one more loser on here (looking at you Dr Stew Pidd PhD and others) spewing crap that anyone that had problems with vista is some low classed, poor or uneducated fool I'm going to puke. Dr Stew Pidd PhD - "This is not to the poor people who can't afford to upgrade. This is to the people that are too cheap to upgrade. If you coupon clipping hippies can't bear to spend $ to have a system that will run Vista then that's fine." LOL pretty funny how you identified the only people that have problems with vista are people that had ancient or cheap systems. LOL after this I want you to join Dorthy, scarecrow and the lion, cause you need a brain. "Mike Nash, who is now a corporate vice president for Windows product management, wrote in an email message, "I PERSONALLY got burnt...Are we seeing this from a lot of customers?...I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine." Is a 2100 dollar purchase of a new sys by a top microsoft employee a un-informed consumer buying a cheapy? Here I'll quickly put your faulty logic out of its misery. "The messages, unsealed in a lawsuit against the company, show that Vista's early problems with hardware and software compatibility affected more than just average PC users" www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36254/144 A judge carefully reviews class action suits and throw them out when they have no basis or are frivolous. "many PCs with the Vista emblem are in fact not able to run many of the Vista features that are advertised in step with the hardware" www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36186/118/ "A new PC that carries the Windows Vista Capable PC logo can run Windows Vista. All editions of Windows Vista include innovations in security, reliability, search, and the organization of information. Some features available in the premium editions of Windows Vista—like Windows Aero—might require advanced or additional hardware." www.microsoft.com/hk/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/capable.mspx LOL "might require" advanced or additional That's pretty 'F'ing vague when you consider that "might" is equal too a consumer having to get a new processor, video card and memory. AND NOW FOR THE NAIL IN YOUR HIGH CLASSED COFFIN... "Many of the emails show that Microsoft execs themselves were not at all happy with the marketing scheme, and it appears that they launched it to help Intel sell an aging chipset and meet quarterly earnings numbers. The chipset in question, 915, was not capable of running Windows Aero. The problem, though, was that Intel had lots of those chips in inventory, and needed to sell them in order to hit its earnings." John Kalkman - "In the end, we lowered the requirement to help Intel make their quarterly earnings so they could continue to sell motherboards with the 915 graphics embedded." Mike Ybarra, wrote in an email to then Windows chief Allchin "Jim, I am passionate about this and believe this decision [to launch the Vista Capable scheme] is a mistake. We are caving to Intel." "We are really burning HP --- who committed to work with us to drive the UI experience across platforms and have already made significant investments. Other OEMs have made bets against this as well. These three things just don't add up to me. We are allowing Intel to drive our customer experience." I want you and the sorry people that claim to be a consumer to come back and justify these actions.

Enlighten report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Bundled with OS

Aug 21, 2008 14:53     

"And please NO ONE POST ON HERE how it's included in the OS for free, or that internet explorer is free or any other application bundled in with the OS purchase... " So what you're saying is that you want no software or features with your OS. That includes notepad, paint, IE, Media Player, calculator, Windows Explorer, [My] Computer, word pad, Remote Desktop connect(RDP in general), firewall, TCP/IP stack, disk defrag, system restore, CD/DVD burning, etc. The list could go on and on. So to buy all those features/apps would bloat the OS's price to over $1000. My stance on Vista has always been: 1. Don't downgrade newly built PCs with it. 2. Don't upgrade to Vista, unless you have a newly built system that can handle the requirements. I just bought a laptop with 3GB of RAM & Core 2 Duo for about $700. It runs Vista well(after I removed all the crapware that Toshiba put on there) even with Virtual PC running some instances of XP or Server 2003/2008. So price of PC's are always coming down and all that I've seen run Vista beautifully.

Headward report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +1

re: WHAT!?!

Aug 21, 2008 14:57     

Obviously you have never tried to install one of the BSD UNIX implementations. Its not easy. Yes OSX makes things easy but their kernel is HIGHLY HIGHLY tailored to their hardware. There is a lot of custom code in Darwin that goes to optimizing performance on their particular hardware set. and the Linux OS is stale?! Lol just because you don't take the time to explore the advanced features doesn't mean it hasn't changed. just because they aren't apple and don't slap a new user interface on it every few years doesn't mean it hasn't changed. and ya open source is great its also the fastest growing software trend in the world. and omg the leaders of the movement are in their 50s and feeding their families fine. it's free as in freedom not as in free beer. it's apparently obvious you know nothing about the open source movement, since your spouting the same line that the closed source world was 10 years ago. Even your precious OSX is open source, at least the kernel is, since its required to be by the BSD license. (That's right you can go get the OSX kernel source, just not the GUI source)http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/ and RedHat seems to be doing fine as well. OSX has a fine set of features just it's irritating that their marketing department thinks its ok to slap a new GUI on it and call it "brand new" and do stupid stuff like "Terminal 2" which is exactly the same as the old terminal just in a pretty OSX window. No new commands, no new features, nothing. My biggest problem with apple is their marketing not their OS. All in all, yes its UNIX with a different UI being passed as something new. It still uses the X server, it still uses a UNIX kernel, its not revolutionary its just another option. An OS is just a tool, your choice of use is centered around personal preference and application. Some are better at some things than others. None of them are perfectly general purpose. I for instance don't find the mac system very intuitive, I never have. I think the terminal and emacs are very intuitive, but many other uses think the opposite. I don't like that windows forces me to use the GUI since the command prompt is next to useless, and I don't like that mac discourages you from using the terminal in the way that it is set up. So I use Linux or an original BSD distro. Fanboyism is kinda stupid all around.

Kelson report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -1

one question to microsoft

Jan 08, 2009 20:32     

does windows 7 support the exisited software in the market ?? microsoft answer: thats a big no no , windows 7 kernel is based on vista and 2008 kernel hahahaha another failure
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