If HD-DVD was important enough why wouldn't blu-ray be?

Anyway I agree with VOD statement in general, however that's really outside of M$'s control. The bandwidth for HD video just isn't high enough in most areas of the US (unless you like waiting 4 hours for a movie to download). So unless M$ pays Verizon to put FIOS in everyone's hood I don't expect BD to go away any time soon.

This is why I don't buy a Microsoft Gaming console.

They're so idiotic they'll try to keep making games on 8GB max DVD drives. While PS3, their direct competitor, is releasing 25GB games. Eventually, developers will need the space Blu-Ray provides to better their products and satisfy customers while XBOX will have no choice, given developer demand, to switch to a higher capacity format.

I hate Microsoft with a passion because of idiots like Mr. Shane Kim.

I should get his salary.

As the months go on, I am slowly leaning to believe that truly the Blu-Ray format will become only a niche format for high enthusiasts. Keeping prices high for the players and discs, for a format that is not "astronomically" above and beyond DVD, is definitely hindering Blu-Ray from taking off. With the industry promoting streaming movies, and Netflix moving out with set top boxes and possible console integration, looks like the niche theory may become reality.

Only time will tell of course...

It is clearly that at this moment, only a hand full of games can take use of that capacity. Even if the game size goes far beyond a 9.6gig can handle, they can just throw in 2 dual-layer DVDs. It's not like we haven't played games that came with 4 or 5 CDs. Preferably 1 disc is more compact to carry, but 2 or 3 isn't like the end of the world either.

Why would you even use a disc's maximum capacity to evaluate a game. Not to mention most games on blu-ray are barely near the maximum load. Yes, they can have a potential to grow, but is breaking a game into 2 DVDs is going to terribly put you down? I really do not see obvious immediately need of giving xbox a blu-ray... unlike PS3, that sony was trying to push for public support.

There's no immediate need for such capacity; the technology is still kind of expensive compare to dirt cheap DVD; BD adoption is going but slow, too many companies fighting for this somewhat small market due to pricing; they had quite some disputes with the BD format; BLAH, worst case they'll add another addon but by that time.. the next gen xbox will probably be out.

So, why rush? Whatever company hires you for your speculation, they'll sure lose more money than they should.... it doesn't make much sense to me

M$ is trying to encourage downloading at the same time that Comcast and other ISP are thinking about CAPS and overage fees. Yea right.... We've got two camps both trying to take all of our money...

Well Microsoft reps can say that, but didn't they support HD-DVD a year ago? Yes, a year ago they thought High Def media was the way of the future, now they "360" on that and say otherwise.

They simply don't want to support Sony.

Idiotic to spend $$$ on massive BR DVD (or even DVD) collections. Just as bad to buy a physical media in a digital world.

You are not really helping the cause by pointing out some PS3 games are nearly 2.5 times the size of an Xbox 360 game... if size was truly the 'end all' factor to games then the Wii would be a failure and the PS3 would have zero trouble trumping every game that comes out on the 360.

the MS rep wants you to jump into Blu-Ray after non-SONY players are cheaper than the PS3.

Man... it gets more frustrating to read the blather on TGDAILY forums. Some of these comments are just ridiculous... take for example the "hey, didn't Microsoft support HD DVD last year blah blah blah"

Um... no they really didn't.

NOTE:
MS never included HD DVD with ANY XBOX360 SKU... not even the ELITE. Available ONLY as a add-on.

Microsoft gets involved in the development of many standards. Some take off... some don't.

HD DVD did not. What did it cost MS??? Not much.

And to the PS3 lemmings with their: "WE ALL NEED 25 GB FOR OUR GAMES!!!"

Name ONE must have PS3 game. Just ONE.

25GB of PS3 Gaming is 25GB of CRAP.

"You just wait RockHop... Metal Gear and Gran Turismo blah blah blah blah"...

Still waiting for a reason to buy a PS3... and waiting... and waiting...

Funny how Crysis fit on one DVD Disk and uses a Graphics engine the the All might y ps3 couldnt handle on its best day. HellGate London 1 dvd. ALl pc games with better detail than ps3 could dream of doing ONE DVD. I dont see games getting OVer to 25 gig till maybe 5 years or more from now. A game is not a movie. Where as a Movie has 24-30 serparate frames of 2.4 megapixel still images flashing a second with over 300kbps Audio , hench movie will always be larger files of media. Games use a Graphics library which is constantly recycled each frame. So you could end up with o lets say 5gigs of Images in the library . Then other items like exucution file and such take up maybe 1 gig. Games that play higher than 2.4 megapixles which is dam near all pc games currently being made. Not to mention there a few ps3 game that are even in 1900x1080 resultion natively. I can care less about blu ray and HDDVD. UNtil they become and afforable MEans of Digital Backup. AKA pc optical drive and cheap BD-R and BD-RW. I use Optical means to back up data for it is more secure and you dont lose any data over time unlike magnetic means AKA HDD, Flash. On top of that I and many people i know use digital Dis. and On demand from the cable company for HD movies. When i see pc game on Blu ray or Holographic versital disk thne ill say we need to move on from DVD . Guess what that is not happening any time soon or for the next 5 years. By then the new xbox ps4 will be out and you fanboys will forget about BD. Becuae you will be measureing you manhood by your new consoles , while i play bootleged Emultations of your consoles on Unix OS's.
PC gaming will never die and pc gamers still out number console gamers 3 to 1.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3167357

Crysis to be ported to consoles (360 and PS3)

"I dont see games getting OVer to 25 gig till maybe 5 years or more from now"

Kojima already said he had trouble getting Metal Gear Solid 4 to fit on ONE Blu-Ray. http://kotaku.com/362807/kojima-says-blu ray-disc-doesnt-have-enough-space

"Not to mention there a few ps3 game that are even in 1900x1080 resultion natively"

That being 1920 x 1080 progressive?

"UNtil they become and afforable MEans of Digital Backup. AKA pc optical drive and cheap BD-R and BD-RW."

Not until this generation of media did anyone expect writers to be available from day zero. How long did it take DVD and DVD /-R/RW to become mass market? AND how far apart were the development arcs?

"When i see pc game on Blu ray or Holographic versital disk thne ill say we need to move on from DVD."

Well it wasn't until a couple of years ago that PC titles came on anything other than CD-Rom, only very occasionally on DVD-Rom, when did you buy your DVD player under your TV?

"PC gaming will never die and pc gamers still out number console gamers 3 to 1."

I bet if you worked out the number of PC's SPECIFICALLY bought for gaming and compared that to the number of consoles sold in that given year (360 PS3 Wii PS2) It would be closer than you think. Also, I own a high end PC, PS3 and a Wii, not sure which camp you would put me in?

PC gaming IS on it's arse. Developers are being driven away by M$ mismanaged Vista debacle and very few titles on PC these days are the massive exclusives they once were, in the most part just ports of 360 games 6-12 months after release.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/03/unreal-creator.html

So in the next 5 years while you are playing Popcap casual games on your PC, I will be enjoying my Hi-Def movie collection and PS3 all from the comfort of my sofa. :P

Its not like using a blu-ray disk for games is an necessity its a privilege.First party developers like Insomniac are shipping resistence2 on a 50gb blu-ray disk this year because they CAN.

The reason pc games are compressed onto a dvd is because they become uncompressed when you install them on your hardrive so there isnt a need for 25/50gb disks.

If you don't have a reason to buy the ps3 DON'T BUY ONE ive seen so many people make threads asking reasons why they should make the purchase.

Relying on digital distribution is a tenuous decision people will always want to purchase tangible media, mainly because there isn't sufficient bandwidth to ensure everyone would use it.Not to mention that impatience is more popular than The Beatles in 1964.

"...in an Xbox 360 that sells for substantially less than the Playstation 3 at this time."

umm it's only 50 buks cheaper than the ps3 and if you where to get everything for the 360 that the ps3 40 gig offers than you will be pushing $450...idiots...

i really enjoyed uncharted...i woudl see that as a must have...also MGS4 will be,

They are porting the engine not the game they said the game will never be able to work on the 360 or PS3. Also Age of Conan which just came out is 30 GB and fits just fine on a dvd, compression can allow a dvd to hold well over 18 GB and also there are DVD called DVD18 which are double sided duel layer DVD's thats roughly 9 GB per side or 18 GB for the whole DVD or 36 GB compressed. Further more didgital distriution is the future of games atleast on the PC I refuse to go to the store anymore now that steam has finally caught on with other developers. HD space is cheap you can get a 1TB drive for only $140 bucks and the price is dropping rapidly and if I need more space I uninstall the game and re download it later when I want to play it

Crysis on engine port: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/act...es;title;3

Also you guys should really learn how how the hardware in consoles actually functions when it ones to game development, I'm am so sick of arguments about which ones better. Hers a simple article that has been available to read on IGN for some time about the xbox and ps3. I personally admit that I like microsoft better but there are also alot of things I dont like about them, its a personal preference and that is it but i niether own an xbox or ps3 but I have played both for many hours at my friends house and we play the xbox more than the ps3 because really the game selection for the ps3 is weak and the article I will link you to will explain why, sony tryed way to hard this time around and could of easily beat microsft if they had just kept the hardware more feasible for game development.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

Hate to say it, but I told you so...

:)

i think they meant that lowering the cost of the 360 would be more benneficary than putting a blueray drive in it and make it cost an additional hundred. if the elite 360 ever got to the say a wii's price, than it might become more on par with the wii's sales and demolish the ps3's.

"The reason pc games are compressed onto a dvd is because they become uncompressed when you install them on your hardrive so there isnt a need for 25/50gb disks."

That's why you have install 3GB for GTA IV on the PS3 and there's a little or no install for the 360.

You will always need to install some of the bits to the hard drive because it is faster to access the the hard drive vs optical media. Just like it is faster to access RAM vs the hard drive.

I know you just want to justify the cost of the PS3 and blu-ray but it's just not making sense.

The 360 will do fine with a price cut or the addition of blu-ray. Either way it will put more pressure on Sony. You will see more excusive titles for the 360 because of DEV costs are extremely cheaper. Not to mention how many 360's out there.

Keep in mind that microsoft should be preparing to refresh the console within the next two or three years, so there wont necessarily be a need for the high definition optical drive now as soon the console will be replaced..

DVD didn't exactly take off overnight either. I remember a long time while VHS still sat on the shelves.

Microsoft is just bitchy because their horse lost - largely to their fault.

Well i Wrote my above comment based on what i see. Blu ray is ok. I always root for the highest density disk i could get < wish it was 3.9 terabite holographic versital disk> . But i can stand it when ps3 fans , and it is alway a ps3 nutcase saying this "You NEED blu ray!!!!!". Well I dont NEED Blu-Ray. I only care about new optical meduims for backing up data. I have had to many Hard rives fail and lost alot of data. While I have CD's that were writen in 1990 that the data contain is still there with no degrigation. While Magnetic Means of storage corrupts over time.Any one here still have a HDD that is 20 years old and is still working?
When I see games on pc thaty have 3megapixel resultions to 4.6 megapixel resutions contained on a DVD. Tells me i dont NEED blu ray for HD gaming. Beside we been haveing HD gaming for years now. 1280x768 is 1 megapixel and 1 megapixel media is HD as far as visuals go. Sure I'd Like a Blu ray rewriteabgle drive for my pc but wont get one right now. I own a Ps3 60 gig i purchased in Febuary of 2007 I rarely play it or use it. Since Digital distrubution Has in my eyes become my new way of getting media. I am sure the next Xbox will Have a Samsung Blu ray drive. Since it was Thosiba who made the 405nm Blue laser and has all rights to make a blueray player incluing Samsung.

I have seen better technology come and go. Just because it is better and/or newer does not mean it will succeed. I remember the beta tape and the 8 track tape. Both was better and both are now gone. Perhaps Microsoft is waiting to see if blue ray will last? I am no fan of Microsoft but this would be a wise move. Blue ray discs are more expensive than dvd's and the blue ray players cost more than dvd players. It is a good time to buy dvd players since they are so low in price now (alot lower than when they first came onto the market). :)

Blu-ray is dying, eh? Because Microsoft doesn't want to use it on their consoles? Wow, Microsoft has incredible power in the HD market that they guessed wrong about a few months back...

Based on sales and the movie lineup for the rest of 2008, it appears to be growing and thriving.

When I can stream a full 1080p movie with a Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio track, with no wait time and no lag/packet loss what-so-ever, I'll start to question Blu-ray a little. Until then, I'll keep investing in my Blu-ray collection. =)

Oh, this is about game systems using Blu-ray? If a game system kicks ass and has multiple must have titles, who cares about the delivery method? That's backseat to game play and entertainment value. Or should be. Both Microsoft and Sony need to learn that.

Like it or not, HD DVD is dead.
Blue ray is the only way to get HD content.
As for microsoft's plan for download content, there is a serious flaw in the plan that both MS and netflix has...is that the internet companies are not building much faster boardband ,unless someone is willing to pay for the huge cost and the expensive usage fees they have to charge...
Also existing boardband companies like comcast is limiting their user's usage like 25G a month?
and those are suppose to be for the high usage black list people... how many HD movie you can get for freaking 25G? it's video and already compressed...so I don't think you can compress it anymore when sending them and not lossing something.

That argument is worthless. In the IT field, everything will eventually be replaced by something better; that really doesn't mean anything. How long it's able to hold its own is the real test.

Yes, Blu-ray WILL be replaced with something better... eventually.

Until that time comes, which could be 2 years, 5 years or even 10 years from now, I'll keep using Blu-ray. Just like I kept watching black and white until color came around, just like I kept watching VHS until DVDs were establish, and just like I kept watching SD DVDs until Blu-ray established itself.

How much money did I spend on SD DVDs? Tens of thousands, no doubt. Do I consider it a waste? No. I live my life one day at a time, and I enjoy what's available NOW.

I'm not going to waste a few years of my life worrying about technology becoming obsolete after I buy it... That and death are certainties that I cannot change, so what's the point in worrying? o,O

First of all there's a little something called fios,in which you can get a 15 up and 15 down connection for around $70 bucks a month or up to 50Mbits down and 5 Up is you want to pay over a $100, also Comcast is trying to instate a 250GB cap not 25GB, furthermore Comcast is trying to bring DOCSIS 3.0. to the table which a new form of cable internet that supposedly can reach speed of 50Mbits and up. I currently have Verizon DSL and downloading a GB with my 3Mbit connection takes under an hour, also netfix is doing streaming not downloading so you only need a 2mBit connection in order to watch HD content using compressed in 720p as of right now. You can even go on ABC.com and test it yourself, you can watch full episodes of lost in HD, I do all the time and my connection does it without a hicup. Also HD content on the usually saved as an MKV only takes up about 7GB of space and thats for a 1080p movie thats 4 hours long. You should research before you go and comment on something you no nothing about.

Microsoft fanboys quit whining.

DVD disk could not hold 25 GB not even a dual layer DVD. Blue-ray holds 50 GB. so the dude about the Crysis game, stop cry'n. pwned/you fail!

"DVD disk could not hold 25 GB not even a dual layer DVD. Blue-ray holds 50 GB. so the dude about the Crysis game, stop cry'n. pwned/you fail! "

So you're going to bring in the subject of how much the disks, if that's supposed to hold true than HD-DVD would have won because it can hold 51GB per side. So you failed in proving anything but that you're an idiot fanboy. Have fun playing movies while we play games...online.

You just failed.

So how many duplicate files do the devs have to put on a blu-ray disc just so that the PS3 can run any game at a decent frame rate and without hour long loading times? That blazing fast 2x blu-ray drive was a bad idea in my opinion. That alone will account for most of the 25GB used for these games.

You can't seriously be saying that the 360 outperforms the PS3 in something? (or anything) Seriously, I really hate when a large company like msft buys their way into competition. The BD fiasco really cost Sony this time, but the hardware they put out is fantastic. (plus it doesn't have a 30% fail rate) I actually can play a PS2 game on a PS3...why not xbox?
Msft can deny all they want, but they WILL be using BD eventually, it's the accepted HD medium for now. It will be a long long time before enough people have fast enough connections to download HD movies...

they say they are not working on an 'external' blu-ray drive but they may be working on a new 360 which is more up to spec and to date with the ps3 and may launch in 2010, i think that would be good =)