You guys love instigating some colorful discussions by posting these types of articles....

This is so funny.......They must have planned this all out for maxium impact as HD DVD has been delt a death blow like I've never seen before. Now the question is will Toshiba have the grace and courage to admit defeat and move on, or will they continue to battle it out until they are so bloodied and brused their stock price starts to sell for less than the A3 at Walmart. Better to bow out now and start making money off the success of Blu-ray. After all, if you can't bet'em, join'em, one might say.

As an HD-DVD hardware/movie owner I wish I was dead.

As a supporter of the HD DVD Camp, I would like to take this opportunity to place a revolver to my temple and pull the trigger. I mean in all seriousness, how can a format that is more expensive to produce for win out over the cheaper format. From what I can recall isn't 1080p 1080p regardless of which medium it is placed on... and I leave with this... I wish to be dead

Warner, New Line, and now there are rumblings that Paramount may dump HD-DVD in favor of BD. There's actually a clause in Paramount's agreement with the HD-DVD group that gives them that option if and when Warner adopts BD. Seriously. Stay tuned folks.

Its in the consumers best interest that we have a neck to neck scenario for better pricing and features. So for me this is sad news.

HD-DVD has been a dieing breed for some
time now. I have been on this sight telling
people for nearly six months and nobody wanted
to believe it.

And one more time i would like to state for the record that yes there is a big differance in picture quality, and that's why Bluray is the winner.

Well you know what, it's pretty
much a done deal now, and i can proudly say
" I TOLD YOU SO " , so there.

Don't forget someone has to pay for that expensive booth. Yep, you and me the consumer will pay. And pay dearly for Blu-Ray. 2008 will be a sad year for the consumer.

I hope the war officially ends soon. Then the rental stores will really start stacking up HD movies!

Wow, I'm impressed. The difference in the booths is huge. Go Blu-Ray! I can't help but feel bad for the HD-DVD fanboys. Looks like the PS3 owners made an extra good choice. :)

Go find Sony's comment about being able to register your Blu Ray disk right from the player. That seems to be a good way to lock a disk to a certain player. Or it maybe a way to track which disk is being played by which player. I could see the movie studios saying we make $5 selling the movies, so we want the $5 from you rental places. And since we know which disk it was and which player it was played so pay up.

If you think that is far fetched ask yourself how many CD's or DVD's you presently register on your player.

"Setos said that the ROM Mark would prevent movies from being recorded with a camcorder in a theater and played on a Blu-Ray player at home."

I was looking up Rom Mark for Bluray and came across the above sentence in a large article talking about all the DRM in Bluray. How does it know a home movie from a copy of a theater showing?

If the pLayers are going to refuse to play movies because they lack the ROM Mark How is anyone going to make home movies or limited productions in HD?

Sony is selling HD camcorders and poor Joe Public does not relize that he can not make a Bluray disk to send to the Grandparents to play on their Bluray player.

I use a Sony HD camera to record videos of my students for review and improvement training. As of right now I make all the DVD's in one layer DVDs. I was hoping to make them in HD at some point but that looks like it is going to be out of the question since Bluray will not play my home made disks.
And with all the Hate for HD DVD, which would have played my disks since it does not have ROM Mark, I doubt that anyone will be making HD disks or burners for much longer.

For all you Bluray fans hope you enjoy the limits that Sony has placed on you.

HD DVD was expanding and growing in sales, Blu-Ray has been stagnant for a while. What happened is Sony finally sold Warner on it's copy protection schemes. Today the RIAA and MPAA are suing users for copying legally purchased discs. Blu-Ray will make it easier for them to sue you, even though you think you are legally copying a disc (to an iPod or media center PC) but according to them you are not.

Blu-Ray is BAD! I will have to say "I TOLD YOU SO" to be ready...

Is the plot more clear in Blu-Ray? Are the jokes funnier in Blu-Ray? Is the romance always for real in Blu-Ray? Does the hometown always win the game in Blu-Ray? The experience of video is pretty much the same, no matter how great or big the TV is or how clear the media is.

To my knowledge, you can put HD video on a DVD, you just can't get enough to make long productions...

Man I don't care who wins this fight, just pick one already ... so I can buy one .. i'm not gona buy one till someone wins.. or till i really have 2

What RichR said is quite frightening indeed. This whole DRM thing is spiralling out of control, that's what people get for "choosing" the better format. I am sure this is going to be a reality soon, pair a movie with one player, then you can only watch it, when you are connected to the internet. Haha imagine your internet is out, and the Player refuses to watch a movie... Do we really want to go that far? The studios surely chose BD for those reasons - at least partly. Would not want to admit the reason to pirating might be because of the stoneage business models of the movie world.
Also it seems to me, online, most of the BD fanboys are PS3 owners who feel the need to justify their expensive purchase by siding with BD - of course without even having a glimpse of what they are talking about.
I have a PS3 and the XBOX HDDVD addon, about the only reason for me to buy a BD is the quieter noise of the ps3.

Either HD-DVD Partners are the first to think they've already lost, or they don't know anything about marketing. IMHO, some HD-DVD supporters (like MS) have always been more watchers than supporters. They give their brand to the cause, but nothing more.
On the contrary, Sony invested a lot on BD. It seems to me that they have done more strategy and have taken more risks (think at the PS3).
At the end, after many failures, Sony seems to have finally succeeded in promoting a new medium.

You are WAY off base there. This HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOME RECORDINGS OR ANY OTHER AMATEUR RECORDING OF ANY KIND. The embedded watermarking was not invented by Sony anyways, they just seem to be interested in implementing it in Bluray. Basically, before feature films are sent to theaters, they are embedded with a unique watermark "fingerprint" so if someone records them with a cam they can be traced to the theater. I haven't heard about Bluray implementing some sort of library of "digital IDs" that would then refuse to play on the machine, but even in that case I'm sure they'll be a hack.

Most importantly, This has ZERO relevance for HOME/AMATEUR Video recording, nor does it even have
a relevance in professional recording outside of the hollywood studios who optionally can put this watermark on their theater copies.

Bottom line: QUIT SPREADING BULL****!!! Blu-Ray has won, HD-DVD is dead. Get over it.

(btw, I don't even own either)

I dont think HD will just go away! but Blu-Ray is the better format - so it will dominate this market.

www.davids-software-limited.co.uk

really now, all you DRM people are acting like cave men seeing a police department for the first time and absolutely freaking out. Yes, you CAN register your movies, no this does not link it to your machine alone, and yes the registration is not required.
As for the future, name one company that hasnt hurt and hurt badly because of drm? Corps are big, and do strange things sometimes, but they are not stupid. They know that the minute they lock down all devices then the market will go elsewhere, and also that the glorious hacker community at doom9.org (and many many others) will be there to help the rest of us to whatever we want to do with the media we bought with our own damn money.
Lastly, 1080p is not the same as all 1080p. There are many many other factors (mostly contrast ratios) that are much more important than resolution. Not to mention the audio on BRD can even make a crappy audio system sound 1/2 decent, and when on real speakers it is a wonder to listen to. HDDVD tried skimping out on a few of these quality points to make a cheaper product when the early adopters (yes, those of you buying are still early adopters, and yes, HDDVD could still win this) are more interested in a quality product than the cheapness of a product. And because they have the money to buy the expensive stuff in the first place they are more likely to buy more movies than the confused masses who bought cheap HDDVD players at walmart last year.

quote: "And one more time i would like to state for the record that yes there is a big differance in picture quality, and that's why Bluray is the winner."

There is no visual difference between the two. Like you, I'm too lazy to submit facts. Even when a competing technology is about to be beaten, people still tell lies. Why must you be such an idiot? I also think that you didn't "tell us so", I think you "assumed so", because nobody knew who was going to win and honestly, we still don't know (but a lot better idea). Nothing to do with picture qualty, all about CONTENT at the moment (ie who makes the movies).

I read a TGDaily article exactly this time last year commenting on this exact arbitrary monkeyshoot. Last year, the comment HDDVD booth was awesome, full featured with smoked salmon and gourmet coffee and the BD booth was cheap coffee and donuts.

TG's comment last year was the exact same as this article, can you folks come up with new material? At least rotate your headlines on a daily basis for pete's sake on your homepage.

I didn't say witch format would win but I said it would be decided just after xmas. Now to be fair I said by xmas sales not studios jumping formats but A wins a win...

As a IT guy, I make 6 figure.
I have xbox,wii and ps3 and 2 hd tv.
so I don't have to justify my ps3's LOW price.
I buy regular DVD/BD disc like everyone else, so I don't care about copy protection since I don't illegal copy. Even if I wanted to, I just use ANYDVD to ignore the protection there. no problem.
Just copy to DVD format and you can play it in your BD player and your BD player will think it's a regular DVD.....still plays..
BD win not becuase it's a better format.
It's because it has more players out there.
You can say whatever you wanted but the 1.2 million ps3 with BD sold in a month does make the difference on number of players out there.
The copy protection is also what the studio wants, you like it or not.
Since there is 75% studio movie release on BD...there is no way HD can win.
The war is decided by content seller, not the buyer. That's why sony is in the movie and music business rahter than just make machines.
They learned form the VHS thing.
disc price and player price will come down.
when it's 5-10$ a movie and $50 a player, nobody will remember why HD DVD lost and why the hell are we arguing about which stupid format is better.

"And one more time i would like to state for the record that yes there is a big differance in picture quality, and that's why Bluray is the winner."

Your an idiot. I own both formats (BD/HD-DVD) and I can tell you there is no difference. Some HiDef(1080p) movies in BD look amazing others look like crap. Same with HD-DVD. It just depends on the movie studio and how much effort the put into up converting old titles to 1080p. I can tell you nothing shot in the last two years looks any different on either format. Minus the oceans 13 I got from netflix that move looked like crap in every format.

I think the only reason M$ backed HD is because they where hopping the PS3 would become a pretty looking brick if BD failed. M$ has expressed little interest in pushing HD-DVD besides the fact they say the prefer the open DVD format, but to be honest I think M$ could care less. BTW watch out for the BD xbox 360 add on.

Your Hd DVD players aren't going to stop working. The Hd DVD movies you own will not stop playing. No, you will not be able to buy new HD DVD movies, however you will be able to buy a very inexpensive Blue-ray player soon.

Five years from now when you can't buy a 1080p TV you will want to replace all of your old HD DVDs with blue ray anyway just to take advantage of the fantastic 1440p and 2160p discs. (No, HD DVD would never have supported 1440p)

Enjoy your HD DVD player. It is still good. When there is a fire sale on HD DVD movies, stock up fast! In a year or two when Blue-ray players cost less than $100, upgrade (If you are out of HDMI ports, just get an HDMI switch).

PS. Now that the war is over, lets get back to fighting over Windows VS OS-X and Linux.

Long live OS-X!
Long live Linux!

Yes, the Studio's helped decide "they want Content Protection" and the Play Station 3 is what I believe led to what looks like the victory for Blu-Ray. Too bad Microsoft and Toshiba didn't implement the HD-DVD into every XBox360, then things would have been more interesting today =D

Well, I wanted competition so I'm aggrivated, I don't care who wins atm, just that competition stays strong. If HD-DVD does pull-out/fail, I will probably buy a PS3 just incase I want to play a game on it =D

One of several things is happening.

A. The movie in the theater is going to have a rather noticeable mark, like a subliminal message to ensure that it is recorded since no camcorder could make that perfect a copy to catch small pixel changes and then properly compress then into the storage codex.
A.1 And if it isn't that obvious then how are they going to ensure that my home movie does not somehow contain a scene that resembles a marker that will trigger the do not play function?

B. They have being lying all this time about the capability of their machines.

C. The capability exits and they have not turned it on yet.

Besides all the above you missed the point of the first post is that according to the specs for Bluray if it does not have a ROM Mark it should not play. If it does play then the spec is wrong or not fully functionally at this time. There have been a lot of systems put out that the spec says one thing and most developers followed the spec and did not try to bypass it. However some developers have found quirks in any spec and created programs etc to take advantage of the gap only to find at the next revision their software failed to work because the error in the spec was corrected. Just because it may work now does not mean it will continue to work at some future point with a software update.

It's good for the consumer that there finally looks like at least one format has won this war. However, now the question remains, "Will the consumer buy Blu-Ray, or continue to stick to DVD? For the average customer, DVD still looks great to them. With the push for digital television by 2009, it makes you wonder whether or not that will translate into people buying into the Blu-Ray market to complement their HD TVs.

I know there are many others like myself that still don't wish to pony up $25-$30 for a movie. I like the fact that DVDs only cost about $15-$20 per movie. The difference in video/audio quality between DVD and Blu-Ray is definately there, but is it worth all the extra money? I say no. It will be interesting to see if the price drops soon enough for the average customer, like myself, to go ahead and dive into this new HD market. If not, Blu-Ray could still find it's way out the door.

Blu-Ray hasn't won entirely just yet. They've managed to pretty much send HD-DVD packing, but now they still have to convince the rest of the consumer market that it will be worth our hard earned money to throw away DVD in favor of Blu-Ray. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

Thanks fan boys. For the record I own an HD-DVD and Blu-ray player. The competition WAS forcing lower and lower prices, but let’s thank the stupid fan boys that keep spewing stupid uneducated BS. Good day!

It's too late for me, I already threw my HD-DVD player and movies into the front yard and lit it ablaze. Save yourselves! My own meat! May michael rot with a bagel between his toes.

Don't hate tha playa, hate da game!

"Thanks fan boys. For the record I own an HD-DVD and Blu-ray player. The competition WAS forcing lower and lower prices, but let’s thank the stupid fan boys that keep spewing stupid uneducated BS. Good day!"

So... T.... correct me if I'm wrong, but, what you're saying is that because people argue about which format is better on tgdaily, movie companies decided to choose one format over the other. Now who's spewing uneducated BS?

At the end of the day, DVD is still the prefered format for most consumers and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Just look at how long it took DVD to take a lead over VHS and become the medium of choice. Personally I'm in no hurry to get a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player. I have better things to spend my money on.

Also, if you go out and buy something as soon as it comes you should expect to get burned on price, it happened with CD and DVD, and although I'm too young to remember... Probably Cassette and VHS.

Lets just use a bit of common sense here people.

Let me re-state something...

"HD DVD was designed to be the successor to the standard DVD format and is derived from the same underlying technologies. Since all variants except the 3x DVD employ a blue laser with a shorter wavelength, it can store about 3 1/2 times as much data per layer as its predecessor (maximum capacity: 17 GB per layer instead of 4.7 GB per layer). A 51 GB triple-layer spec has been approved, however no movies are currently scheduled for this disc type.[2]"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
--------------------------------------------
Try following this:

A standard dvd drive and an hd dvd drive differs only in the laser used. Which allows data to be stored on the same disk in a greater capacity.

So what was my point in saying, technically toshiba or any other company could and will create rock bottom high def drive for so called data storage. Why because it's a no brainer. All of the current crop of companies companies will be unleashed to start competing making cheap high def/greater storage drives because all they need is access to the blue laser.

Do you understand what this means?

Lets back up and review the history. Cheap HD DVD writers are not and haven't been on store shelves. Why? because it was to appease their partners to choose their format for future movies. As stated above it's much cheaper and much easier to produce a player and writer for the format because internally its basically dropping in a blue laser.

And they will also choose this because they'll be no royalties due for data drives as sony will continue to manipulate blu ray writers and the companies that produce them.

If every studios turns their back and HD DVD sinks what will we have. An influx of cheap High def DVD writers for data storage. With those dives you can write in any format that the consumer wants too. VC-1, H.264, divx HD, MPEG-HD endless, just as people rent movies in one format, but burn a divx copy on similar structured dvd's. The same as people copying music raw cd to mp's and storing it on cheap cdr's.

Now without an influence by the studios there is no longer a need to require the writer to use different coating. Remember, the dvd disk media is the same structure.

Technically, just as most people today store copied music on cheap data cd's that last a much shorter time than the better layered music cd's. This same theory applies to movies.

This means that consumers can have a drive to "quote on quote" back up their 17 gigs of ANY data on standard 23 cent single layered dvd's. Or they couple purchase blank DVD-DL disks and hold close to 25 gigs.

Is this still going over your head?

Do you think sony/blu ray media will match this?

shark you stated there is no difference in the cost of media between blu ray and hd dvd. I garantee you that it'll be an extremely long time before a consumer will be able to purchase blu ray media for under a $1.

This is the reason that I haven't and wont shelve out dollars for either. And to shark your complete azz hole.

I guarantee my method is much more cost effective all you need is a pc dual format or blu ray reader. Than $600 or much more for blu ray player and or a pc reader/writer. And $17 to $21 write media.

So read and respond anyone. Because things are shaking out exactly as I thought it would. HD DVD caused the lowering of the expect blu ray price through competition. Then will have revenge in the under ground just as divx has... Divx as stated before was a sunken tech ship like hd dvd, but some how in 2006/7 and 8 tech is being created to play it.

Unless Sony license's its' tech to cheaper companies (apex, magnovox, ect), blu-ray will come at a premium price. For all who want blu-ray on the cheap - Go with a HTPC (not a PS3 - get a real computer). If you already have a core 2 duo, add a blu-ray drive cheap - free software at that. That's how I got into BD and its the only way I would go. Purple but now I'm ultraviolet.

While there will not be multiple formats competing, there will be multiple branded players competing for the same market. This will push the price down as it happened with DVD player: one format, yet now you can buy a decent DVD player for less than $100 and as low as under $30 (if not free when you buy something else).

On the flipside, anyone manufacturing BR players have to pay extra tribute for the honor, so that might keep prices higher for a longer time...

I've seen the fall of so many good inventions from sony and all I can say is finally a better product is chosen, those prices WILL go down once the demand rises.

First, video or audio, the suitcase doesn't mean squat. It's all in how you pack it and what you put in it. The size difference is so minute compared to the size of video files that it also means squat.

You guy have been hoodwinked into thinking that there is a difference by propaganda and slick set ups in stores that want Sony and Disney money, so they let them set up the BD sets to look great, while the rest of the systems have to deal with what shipping did to them.

The booth was better because Dismal Land put their money behind it. And as a marketing professional, I didn't think the HD-DVD booth was bad. But when you're up against the Tragic Kingdom (aka The Most Expensive Place on Earth), you're going to look like crap. What did the Microsoft or Intel booth look like?

And tell me something, why can I buy Sony movies on HD-DVD outside the US? (Any search engine will bring up plenty of hits, so do it yourself!)Looks like even Sony wants to hedge it's bet everywhere but Region 1.

Oh and why region code? Why the DRM that'll just be broken in a couple of months? It's all about some useless exec telling his boss what a wonderful job he's doing so he can get his billion dollar bonus.

Piracy will continue to happen and the little guy who is just trying to watch a fricking movie will get screwed. The really depressing part is that it won't matter who wins.

If Warner Bros were smart, and acting in the consumers’ best interest, they would have dropped Blu-ray, since the Play Station 3 which contributed to the bulk of the Blu-ray sales was mainly being sold as a game machine.

Additionally, Blu-ray may have taken a commanding lead in the next-generation format war, but the group has a big problem looming: early supporters of the format will be left out in the cold when the Blu-ray Disc Association introduces BD Profile 2.0
Unlike HD DVD, which mandated features such as local storage, a second video and audio decoder for picture-in-picture, and a network connection from the very beginning, the companies behind Blu-ray took a different approach. Initial hardware players lacked these capabilities in order to keep costs down.
None of the Profile 1.0 players can be upgraded to Profile 1.1, which was finalized recently, with the exception of the PlayStation 3 -- whose update arrived in mid-December. Likewise, Profile 2.0 is expected to arrive in October bringing Internet connectivity that Profile 1.1 players lack.

So HD DVD owners are not the only consumers being screwed by Sony.

The owners of Play Station 3 units would not have had as bigger lost as the standalone HD DVD player owners. After all, it is mainly a game machine and the game software for it is not being dropped.

If this had occurred, the cheaper HD DVD stand-alone players would have really got HD player sales moving with real consumer acceptance of them as a replacement to standard DVD players.

Just look what happen with the Walmart $99.00 HD DVD Player promotion.

Why do all of you make it sound like HDDVD and Bluray are single identities?
Prices will come down.
1. Yes Sony is the proprietor of the technology but there are a lot of major corporations out there that have access to it and would dearly love to bring Sony to its knees.
To name a few... Samsung, Sharp, Pioneer. To them the format war was just about picking the right format to back...
The real war for them starts when there is a defined market and what market share they can take.
MARKET SHARE is what they want, because that defines their profit margin. They compete against each other and as hard as Sony might make it for them to eventually Sony will have to drop its prices too.
2)Dvd is still the giant on the market... they need to convince the market to upgrade. DVD is cheap and blu ray isnt. They can win the enthusiasts war but most consumers are dollar minded... Bring the bluray player price to 150-200 then you can see a mass shift in the population. Barring that... can anyone say up-converting dvd player? You don't get the same quality but it is an improvement over dvd. :P

Sorry Rhodenator, The educated people who
knew the picture quality differances and
who were informed about the extra storage
capacity of Bluray Disc's and the marketing
stradegys in place, those people knew who was going to win the format war. People like you who went out and bought the cheapest player available and you thought Sony was going to lose just because they lost back in the 80's, your the ones who didn't know. It has nothing to do with
content, if it did than HD-DVD would have won, It's
all about picture Quality and Disc space.
You can refuse to believe and go into a state of denial all you want, it's over Dude, deal with it.

Now it will take a MUCH longer time for prices of HD movie equipment and media to come down if at all. Sony is greedy, and now we'll all pay the price. You folks probably don't remember the CD audio problems of the 80's, but CDs were originally priced much higher than cassettes or records, and everyone said they'd come down. They never did until over a decade later, and still are not as low as they'd say they would be for new artist releases. So don't count your chickens until they hatch!

I have asked this here, and many other places, but nobody every responds. Technically speaking, how is Blu-Ray better than HD DVD?

Does anyone really know? I know there is a size difference, but is there any other REAL reason why Blu-Ray is technically better than HD DVD?

I just want to say that I think that HD DVD was a better format. What screwed HD DVD was at BESTBUY, CIRCUIT CITY, AND ALL OTHER ELECTRONIC STORES. In every single one that I went to, they had 3 times more room for Bluray movies and they displayed Blueray movie on a $3000 Sony TV. For HD DVD they displayed a movie on a $1300 piece of crap TV. So, If I am a customer and I don't know much about HD content, which one am I going to choose? Plus they try to sell Blueray to make more $$$ per sale. Thats why Blueray outsold HD DVD plain and simple...and another thought...those customer service guys don't know what 1080i is. They think it is 720p. IDIOTS!

It reminds me of the show "The Apprentice." It's almost like two teams were tasked with coming up with a display for their respective Product. One team went with sleek lines and a formal format to showcase their product, while the other team went with a more youthful, outgoing, "grab the consumers' interest" approach. If you've ever watched The Apprentice, you know what I'm talking about.

This still doesn't mean HD DVD is going to lye down and submit to defeat. This is going to be a lesson for them and they are going to try to re-energize their advertising and sales approach. The only way one side or the other will go away is when they can't sell enough of their product to make a profit. This event may do it... but it may not.

Why is everyone always on the Sony bandwagon? Their products are mediocre and high price. If you enjoy this, then I can see why you would like Sony. It's funny, Sony looks like they will win there first battle of their lousy inventions...too bad it wasn't sooner. This format (CD/DVD/HD) all on this medium is coming to an end soon, so it's very funny to see this. Sony, your always either to late or miss the point what people want, not what your think people need.