I think TGDAILY posts this stuff just to start the inevitable fanboy war that goes with these kind of "news" posts...

$600 PS3 W/ NO BLU-RAY (DVD) = PROBABLY STILL BUY
vs.
$600 BLU-RAY PLAYER = NO BUY

$400 PS3 W/ NO BLU-RAY (DVD) = BUY
vs.
$400 BLU-RAY PLAYER = NO BUY

$300 PS3 W/ NO BLU-RAY (DVD) = BUY!!!
vs.
$300 BLU-RAY PLAYER = NO BUY!

See the trend? This is the reality; PS3 and no trojan horsed HD-DVD in 360 is the difference. Any technical difference (capacity) between the two is meaningless in the movie/consumer electronics market. In the PC/data arena, things may be different (depending on price).

"but it did not break down how many of those were Playstation 3 consoles" = worthless report

No HD-DVD fanboy spin yet? Looks like the PS3 Blu-Ray trojan horse prophecy is finally coming to fruition. You can argue whether or not the PS3 is a true player or not, but you cannot deny that Sony are getting their product out of the door and into peoples front rooms.

So if we do the math 2.7 million players minus 2.3 million PS3's, so 400,000 people bought blueray vs 750,000 chose HD.

It seems that in the Player market HD is well a head. BD on the other hand has much larger home penetration due to being included in the PS3.

The big question is, do people regularly play movies on their PS3 or does the PS3 normally sit in a different "Game" room away from the main TV.

Saw an add for a $500 blueray player this weekend. i got my HD-DVD Toshiba HD-A3 model for $89 with the same 7 movie deal. Someones $400 to the good. I mean come on, what marketing person is writing this crap??? All we have to do is chart back the last year of how many PS3 sales there are, I bet its a LOT compared to standalone players. Seriously, that is like comparing car sales of one model to a whole division, its not even close to a fair comparison. Now if the XBox 360 was built with HD-DVD and those where counted in the 750K THEN and only then would this be worth something.

Doubtful that these include many PS3 numbers, seeing as how there have been over 6 Million PS3s sold world-wide, according to Wikipedia.org and Sony's own financial estimates. With pricing being the only real advantage for HD-DVD right now, I don't see it doing well in the long-term. The Toshiba HD-A2 does 1080i only, but many new HDTV owners want 1080p, which unfortunately is NOT cheaper than Blu-Ray. Early adopters have ended format wars before. And, remember early adopters aren't always looking for the cheapest solution as much as they want the best solution for their needs. Combine that with the fact that Blu-Ray also better meets the needs for PC/Mac data storage, it's almost a victory for Blu-Ray. Unless something major happens in favor of HD-DVD soon, it's not going to last much longer.

hd dvd drools

From Sony's financial reports they have sold 5.3 million PS3s (as of Nov 5th). So how is there only 2.7 million blu-ray players sold? I don't think the PS3 is doing that bad.

OK they are counting 2 million PS3 consoles where the majority of them are not being used as a BluRay player. Sony has never been on the wining side of a format war (Beta, Memory Stick, MD). The new price point of HD-DVD will hopefully create a victor sooner than later. I am biased toward HD-DVD, but the entire industry and consure looses until there is a single format!!

It does not matter if most were PS3's or not. It is a blu-ray player, plain and simple. The xbox 360 HD-DVD player is part of the 360. So, if the blu-ray player is not considered stand alone, than neither is the 360 HD-DVD player since it has to be hooked up to a system, be it 360 or computer, to even function. Either put both in the sales figures or do not put either. When it comes down to it, no one can deny the quality of blu-ray or the space available on the discs. The movie production companies are to blame if the quality on the disc is not what they expect. Some use different codecs than others. I own both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, and i will have to say that Blu-Ray is much better. Many people I have encountered agree. I think everyone is pretty much tired of this war. The HD-DVD and Blu-Ray companies need to start working together on a specific format or combine the two. It would be alot better for their sales in the long run anyways.

Cheapest 1080p HDVD = Tosh HD-A30 $289
Cheapest 1080p BluRay = Samsung BD-P1400 $339

Has anyone done the numbers on sales of HDTV's by output res? 720p vs 1080i vs 1080p ? My guess is that there are still less 1080p sets sold than the lower res sets. If that's the case then 1080p players are less relevant.

If Sony really wanted to pin the PS3 as a BluRay player, they'd include the remote. Yes you can use the Sixaxis to control playback, but it's a workaround, not a solution.

If PS3 sales were included in the numbers for BD then they would also include the HD drive add-on for the 360

I bought a PS3 to try it out. Frankly, I don't like the controller. I'm a PC gamer, and I guess I'll stay that way. However, as a bonus, I got a Blue Ray Disk Player.

Some are saying my BD player doesn't count. Well, it's in my living room, and the player has supplanted my old DVD player as my DVD player of choice, now including the playing of Blue Ray DVDs.

One person suggested that PS3s might be in some other room. How many people have multiple HD TV sets? I happen to have two, but I suspect that's not all that common yet. I would ask, why would I put the PS3 in some "game" room, if that room could not support HD.

It's not like the connection to the network has to be wired. I'm connected to my internet link wirelessly, so the PS3 can be wherever I want it.

I still can't believe the Blu-ray fanboys don't know that there's no difference between 1080i and 1080p when using a 1080p display.

The display device converts the 1080i/60 input right back into 1080p/24. If you're using a decent display, there's no difference.

I have a gen 1 HD-A1 HD-DVD player, it outputs 1080i. If there were any difference at all, I'd run out and buy a 1080p HD-DVD player as my projector is a true 1080p device.

But it looks exactly the same.

Capacity is of course a non-issue as they have 51gb HD-DVD discs now.

Sorry, no victory for Blu-ray on this one (and none for HD-DVD either).

"Unless something major happens in favor of HD-DVD soon, it's not going to last much longer."

This war has barely begun. FAR to early to tell who is winning.

"According to Nielsen Videoscan, over the holiday kick-off Thanksgiving week, Blu-ray players outsold HD DVD by a margin of 3-to-1."

I HIGHLY doubt this is true. With the $99 HD-DVD player that hit the shelves considered, especially.

Do you honestly think hollywood gives a damn if you're watching their movie on a ps3 or a 'blu ray player'? I bet they don't care.

As long as their movies sell they probably wouldn't care if you made your own blu ray player out of chicken-wire, a magnifying glass, and an old NES controller.

Have to wait until after Christmas to see where the war is going. This time last year HDDVD was beating Blu-Ray until January hit. All the HD-DVD fanboys were point to media sold numbers. Then all those PS3 that were sitting under the tree, kicked in. Now all the Blu-Ray fanboys point to the media numbers. This year there are alot of HD-DVD players sitting under the tree, so who know what will happen.

More food for thought. If there are 2.7 Blu-Ray players sold, why only ~200k Spiderman 3 sales? That's bad. That's only 7% people buying. On the other hand, ~200k of transformers sold with 750,000 HD players sold (numbers of in use are probably less because they are under the tree), that's 27%.

im tired of people here saying, well the ps3 isnt a blueray player its a console

the ps3 is ALSO a blueray player, the same as a 360 w/ the hd dvd player(most 360's being excluded due to the fact most dont have hddvd players) is an hd dvd player, and a blueray burner, is a blueray player

if it plays the format, then by definition it is a player of that format.

so if you compare all hd dvd player and blueray players by my definition, i bet blueray still comes out on top. you cant rule out ps3's because there are people who buy it soley to play blueray, because its cheaper than most stand alone blueray players.

you can only exclude ps3's in standalone format player stats, because the ps3 is essentially a multi-format player.

Blueray in my opinion is winning due to that fact, more blueray players are in circulation, you can store more on a blueray disc(which is all i care about). PC people will probaly like blueray more because they can fit a crapload onto them, like everysong you own, or multible movies. every episode of a tv series.
Software isnt important, that can be easily changed and updated without many problems, pure hardware however HAS to be at the high point so it can fit the expansion of space used. 5 years ago how much space was an average hd, now what is it. they should start putting more than one movie onto blueray discs, and putting entire tv series onto them.

If there are 2.7 Blu-Ray players sold, why only ~200k Spiderman 3 (their best title) sales? That's bad. That's only 7% people buying or 1 in 14 blu-ray owners buying. On the other hand, ~200k of Transformers (their best title) sold with 750,000 HD players sold (numbers of in use are probably less because they are under the Christmas tree), that's 27% or better then 1 in 4 HD owners buying.

True, but XBOX360 wasn't released with HD-DVD. If it was, the price tag will be almost as expensive as PS3 if not more. That would cause less sale. Not to mention the fact that if XBOX360 came with the HD-DVD, less people would buy standalone HD-DVD player.

Price isn't really a factor here. Once the format wins, price will drop. DVD used to be expensive, and the price dropped. Whoever wins the war, in the end, prices will be similar.

2.7 million Blu-ray "players" have been sold, but 2.1 million of those are PS3s. How many of those PS3 users are regularly using their consoles to watch Blu-ray movies? I'm guessing not too many. So really, these numbers are pretty pointless, because not everyone who buys a Blu-ray player is actually buying it for the Blu-ray player, while everyone who buys a HD DVD player is buying it to watch movies.

What I'd really like to see is some numbers for actual movie sales. I'm betting that per player, HD DVD is far outselling Blu-ray. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have two titles in Amazon.com's Top 100 DVDs.

It also seems that when a title is offered on both formats, HD DVD sells more discs than Blu-ray. Planet Earth HD DVD is ranked 19th in DVD sales, while the Blu-ray version is ranked 50th. The HD DVD version of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix is outselling it's Blu-ray counterpart (
162nd vs. 271st), as is the Blade Runner Collector's Edition (277th vs. 312th).

It sounds more like PS3 sales statistics. Probably only 100 stand alone BR players were sold. I'd like to see those dumb asses who bought them :) Those people have no brain:):):) lol

I'm sorry that you can't tell the difference between 1080p and upconverted 1080i content, but some of us can. Progressive scanned content is literally TWICE as good as interlaced. When you see pixels, you are seeing ALL of them at once, which, according to my senses, is better. I've watched 1080p content on a 1080i HDTV and seen a difference when comparing that same content running on a 1080p HDTV.

This is also why MANY people are of the notion that 720p is superior to 1080i.

480p > 480i
1080p > 1080i

Period.

You're assuming Amazon.com makes up the entire Blu-Ray market. It does not. It's only one indicator of total disc sales. Blockbuster and Netflix, to me, would be much better indicators of how each are doing, since Blockbuster/Netflix by themself purchase far more discs for renting purposes.

Try again. The Samsung BD-P1200 retails for $299 at Best Buy. Like I said, to get 1080p, you aren't saving any money going with HD-DVD.

HD dvd players sales NEVER SELL WELL UNTIL the fire sale of the Toshiba A2 for under $100. So how many of you hd fanboys out there brought the A2 or the A3 for more than $200? After consumers sees that Toshiba are willing to dump there old player for cheap, how many do you fanboy see Toshiba will sell for under $200 but over $100?

Just give me a ps3 that can play both I don't care what the frikin format is I Just want to have one piece of equipment under my tv play games surf the web order pizza and not worry about who's on top this week. If it's so important to the movie execs what format is better then have both I don't really care about what features each have If I want to see the movie I will pick it up!! Right now I'm not buying any movies so who's really winning now!! If this was about the consumer their would be all dual format players at the very least but instead their are too many CEO's that have penise envy and can't admit their mistakes

I have compared tv series all tv series on hd-dvd are more expensive than blu-ray.

Star trek season 1 is 149.99 , lost season 3 on blu-ray is 69.99.

There are 100's of tv series i can list same thing hd-dvd $100 blu-ray $50-$70.

Same goes for movies prices have been going up, i have been checking at a few big box stores.

My first DVD player (and only for a few years) was a PS2. My first high def player (and only so far) is a PS3. At the time, PS3 was the cheapest BD player (and also a kick-butt console). Who in their right mind would buy a stand alone player when the PS3 was cheaper for so long (and now only $50 more). OF COURSE PS3 far out sales stand alone BD players.

And from everything I have seen, Blu-Ray disks (movies) have outsold HD-DVD disks 2 to 1 overall . . .

guess what now i have a ps3, and she has her blueray to watch the 300. how many other adualt males have bought "BLUERAY" devices that just happen to play ps3 games?

we will never know that is why the ps3 has to be included in any hd-dvd vs blueray player penatration study.

The truth of who is winning is in disc sales not players sold though.

Guess there aren't as many PS3 sold as we thought! Sure, it's great for first year penetration, but given the sales numberss for Xbox 360 and Wii, PS3 is losing very very badly to those 2 formats...let's see Wii sold nearly 10 million, and 360 about 7 million in that same time frame...hmmmm...looks like a major spanking for PS3 to me...the trojan horse plan failed miserably. Sony stands to make more money on gaming then from BD, so this isn't good news. But, let the BD boys spin spin spin....your sales advantage is 3-1 WOW...like we didn't already know this...actually...this means there's like NO Blu Ray players selling....which is what STUDIOS will look at.

6.55 million ps3's have been sold so far so this must not include the ps3.

http://www.vgchartz.com

I did my price check at Amazon for players that were actually available. If the BD-P1200 a phase out, then I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to come back in stock.

I still want to see the brake down of sales based on monitor/projector resolution.

1) LCDs and Plasma displays do not display interlaced images. They may accept an interlaced image, but their display technique is always progressive.

2) HD disc media, Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is 1080p, natively progressive on disc.

3) Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players use virtually the identical chipsets, as they are commercial-off-the-shelf. They handle the data from the disc by splitting it into fields (why, I don't know, but that is how the chipset works). Take the A3 (1080i) and the A30 (1080p), for instance -- the main difference being on chip that reassembles (deinterlaces) the fields before output. The source was 1080p so there is no timeshift between the frames, and your flatpanel TV reassembles (assuming you have an A3 not A30/35 or Blu-Ray) the matching fields, harmlessly.

4) 2.7 million Blu-Ray with PS3 must only count North America. The article is rather vague. Last week a TG article counted standalone Blu-Ray at barely 200,000, so that would mean 2.5 million PS3s.

5) I have PS3 and 360 add-on, and HD content on both look great. I believe that selling the HD-DVD add-on to any 360 owner for $50 (some kind of optional voucher included) would ramp up sales much greater than any free movie offer. With the 5 free movies, you still mave to put up $150-$200 for the player.

Look it up, Gullible. It's not in the dictionary. Really it's not. Go ahead look for it...

I guess you'd buy a Blu-Ray player too. Right? HA!

Like with movies, I think these numbers are only reflecting sales in North America...that's the tricky figure, since you can't say US...becuz of our Northern Brethen.

How many sold is not the only important parameter, how many more are yet to be sold is more important. How many Americans are willing to buy a game station for $400 to watch movies in each room ? My guess is, not many. Sony already sold a big chunk of PS3s that will ever be sold, but the hi-def player market is much larger than that number, and hence, the war is far from over. I don't want the war to be over as long as that brings prices down. I think Toshiba's 1080i ploy was as clever as Sony's PS3 ploy, but Toshiba has to lower prices further to stay in the race.

I bought a ps3 for the purpose of playing both BD disc and games.
the PS3 is actually a really good dvd player, plus it got harddrive, so in the near future, it will be a HD DVR. (sony is going to sell tv tuner module for ps3) So the PS3 is even better than a regular BD machine.

I don't have the breakdown that you wanted, but I did notice that Bestbuy's top selling Hi Def player was in fact a 1080p Blu Ray player. A toshiba A3 was second place.

Seriously, why won't you post my comments on this article? There was nothing offensive in any of my posts!

/silenced reader

Due to interest it would be great to see a once a month article on TG daily, with total global sales for:

Blu-ray and HD DVD players (both with and without the inclusion of console players)

Blu-ray and HDDVD movie sales

Blu-ray and HD DVD rental sales (because some ppl prefer to rent movies rather than owning them eg me )

Blu-Ray and HD DVD blank disc sales.

So, you're basically saying that all 1080i LCD and plasma displays are not really 1080i? Care to explain that? Didn't think so.

I honestly can't believe so many people don't see this, but I think HD DVD has sold something like four times as many stand-alone players as BD. And when that last article came out about 750,000 HD DVD players sold, all BD fanboys were saying, "Oh, you're counting the Xbox add-on! Foul!" That's not a foul. Someone made this distinction elsewhere, but the HD DVD add-on for the Xbox may not be a stand-alone but it is DEDICATED. This means you would not go out and spend $180 on it with no intention of purchasing HD DVDs. MANY people, as has been show, however, go out and buy a PS3 and then don't make use of it as a BD player. If they all were, then BD should have something more like a 5 to 1 lead over HD DVD software sales.

And as someone else mentioned - how many regular average adults are going to buy a PS3 to get into the high definition arena? NONE, that's how many. Nobody who does not play games wants to use a games system to play back their movies. The PS2 may have sold something like 20 million units, but there are something like 100 million DVD players in American homes. It could probably be even more than that, as many people have two or three players. I look at it this way - imagine that at the same time as DVD came out, Sony came out with the PS2 and a proprietary disc format for playing films. As is always the case with Sony tech, the cost of producing stand-alone players is astronomical when compared to their competitor, so, like the PS3, they probably would have been in a similar scenario regarding the PS2. So maybe, at first, they would have seemed to pull way ahead with PS2's selling like hotcakes out of the gate for a year or so versus regular DVD, but eventually, there are only so many game systems you can sell. So while it may have looked good in the beginning, once joe and jane consumer got into the mix and players dipped below $100, it would have been all over for a PS2 Sony proprietary movie disc format, had it actually happened. This is EXACTLY what will happen with BD - IF the players don't come down below $200 in price soon... as in, BEFORE Christmas. And with Sony's arrogance and BILLIONS spent on advertising, the losses on the PS3, and the losses on software (is that 90% failure rate true?), it is becoming an IMPOSSIBLE battle for them to win on the stand-alone front. Things are tough for a lot of people. Sure everyone wants to enjoy high def on the t.v.'s they bought in previous years, when money wasn't as tight during the holidays, but price WILL BE THE DECIDING FACTOR. Factor in that HD DVD can still afford to push software prices down should Sony start to get their stand-alone prices down and it's lights out for BD. They can lower software prices OR player prices, but they can't do both because they expect to make money in royalties on this format sometime in the next century. You can only hemmorage so much before something's gotta give. Usually, with Sony, it's the format itself. Also factor in that this 1.1/2.0 thing is out there now and believe me, you can explain to the average consumer that it doesn't have that big of an effect all you want, but all they need to hear is that HD DVD is a universal standard that's not changing and has ethernet for upgrading firmware and again, it's a loss for Sony.

(first off, sorry for the multiple posts, but I don't think anyone has systematically hit BD's faults yet)
IF YOU THINK STUDIOS AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO THE STEADY HD DVD STAND ALONE PLAYER SALES THEN YOU ARE INSANE. I happen to know personally that there are some people in Disney who are already growing impatient with Sony and the BD technology. Warner Brothers is impatient with the format war altogether, but look for Disney in particular to start making noises about switching teams or going dual format if BD doesn't get it's act together with regards to their standards and the cost of stand alone players. And with regards to this notion that Disney is the big gun as far as studios, since when? They might be the biggest NOW, but do you realize that Disney's live-action catalogue only goes back to the late 50's, and, even then, they only made sporadic films, like Mary Poppins? Universal and Paramount had, oh, I don't know, FORTY YEARS, on them in that category. And how do their animated classics and the Pixar movies translate to being THE decisive software in this battle? How many parents think they should shell out $500 for a player so that a five year old can see The Jungle Book in 1080p? A six year old doesn't care, they'll watch a torn up VHS tape as long as the content interests them. And if Sony didn't have the Columbia library, they'd be screwed too. Sure the new releases count, but I think catalogue titles drive sales just as much, if not even more. And the king of that is Warner Brothers, which is dual format. Blu Ray's biggest player is Fox, in my opinion, not Disney OR Sony. Maybe in the short-term, but not in the long term. I don't think BD will disappear, but I think that if HD DVD can fight the war by lowering software prices and getting a $130 player to market within the next two or three months, as well as some classic film titles, then it really might be over for BD's chances as THE home high def format.

Ill wait for the NPD's figues to draw any sort on conclusions.

PS3 made into a HD DVR? Talk about worthless. Do you know how long it would take you to fill up 80 gigs with High def content? Maybe a couple movies and a football game and its already full. What good is that? HD DVR with less than 500 gigs is really not worth it.

The number 2.7M is very funny. Is it referred to a period? Or is it an absolute value? I thought that there were more than 6M PS3 out there plus about 300K stand-alone BD players.
Messing up with numbers is a bad thing. You lose credibility.
BTW, as said before, I wish BD won over HD-DVD because I wish to keep using my PS3 also to see movies, without buying another device. However, numbers are numbers and shooting them randomly is not the right thing to do.
It is sensible to include some percentage of PS3 as HD-movie players, if the have done something like that they should tell. It seems that they are saying that BD stand alone players 50% PS3 sold = more or less 2.7M
That's, perhaps, their estimate.
However, you can lower that percentage to 10% and there will always be more BD-players out there than HD-DVD ones!

Come on, you spent about $500 for the console, annother $1000 for the projector/HDTV, and annother bit for the surround sound system. People who have bought a PS3 are going to use it as a BD player, and they generally have the money to. Those who are buying the cheap HDDVD players at walmart are getting it to be cool, but many are breaking the bank just getting the player and the TV, they arent going to spend the money on movies.
And to Derrick; yes most people who have the PS3 have them with the biggest and best movie screen in the house, and with the new firmware updates it even scales DVDs better than most DVD upscalers, so it is beginning to replace DVD players as well. This is what sony has been trying to do sinse the PS2, they wanted to have a 'entertainment system' not just a game console. They may not perfect it till the PS4, but they aim to replace consoles, set-top players, and even computers. They are not there yet, but they are making much progress in this regard.

"The PS2 may have sold something like 20 million units, but there are something like 100 million DVD players in American homes."

I like making up numbers too!

2.... your IQ score.

BTW, the PS2 has sold over 100 million units.

These are in fact North American numbers: see http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=719.
"Coming off of huge Blu-ray sales during the early holiday shopping season (which includes Black Friday), market research now shows that consumers have purchased 2.7 million Blu-ray players in the North America region as of November 24th. Additionally, US sales of Blu-ray titles topped 4 million units in November, taking just over two months to achieve the new milestone. This new data dwarfs reports from the HD DVD group stating the format had sold 750,000 players by a factor of over 7-to-2. Interestingly enough, sales of Blu-ray software sold at a similar rate for the week ending November 25th."

Personally, I'd like to see both formats stick around. I'm not an economics expert, but isn't more competition a good thing? And most markets are "niche" today anyway, so why not this one? But maybe I'm dreaming in technicolor (or in HD!).

@winkgood : Worthless? If I want my PS3 (that I'm about to purchase) to eventually act as a DVR, I'll spend less than $100 for a high capacity 2.5" drive. and snap it in. Or I'll spend $400-$600 on a dedicated DVR. Not a difficult decision, really.
Cheers.