That is because Vista is crap and no one wants it!!

I think they meant.

"We developed a fool proof way to prevent pirates; we made an OS that nobody wants and is too resource heavy to work on hardware in areas like Asia where piracy is rampant."

It has been pirated less, because even if I was going to pirate Vista I wouldn't, it is not worth it. A Majority that knows how to pirate are going to pirate XP over Vista any day, Now when SP1 comes out then that might be a different story.

I think the reason why there is less piracy in Vista is because less people want it!!!! lol!

I got another theory for the reduced counterfeit rate: People simply don't want the new OS, hence they don't go out to the street and buy it counterfeit. If they wanted it, they'd get it, get it? Hahahahaha

Vista is such a piece of crap that nobody even wants to pirate it.

So if Vista sales are double XP and the piracy rate is half, I guess the same number of people who pirated XP are also pirating Vista. (It probably is the same people.) So all that money invested in DRM to stop the same people who will figure out how to do it anyway. Now we have yet another round of security added to Vista SP1. The irony is that M$ claims that legit copies won't be affected by pirates this time. They are starting to sound like a broken record.

Vista is so bad that even the Pirates stay away from it hehehe...

I'd be curious to see if their piracy rates increase over time as Vista becomes more in demand. No one wants that OS. It's a joke.

Wrong answer.

The real reason is that nobody wants vista.

There is very low demand for Vista to begin with, why bother with the trouble when in many situations XP is better.

Considering the interest in MS Vista is waning or not on par with XP, this is hardly a surprise. I'm not going to give the point to MS on this - I think people are just plain not as interested in it.

Why hassle? XP is holding good ground still.

That explains the rate.
I dumped vista for xp some time ago now.
Will never use it either.

Of course it isn't being counterfeited; nobody wants the damn thing, why would they pirate it?

Vista is so bad that people will not use it for free.

no one wants to pirate it not because of genuine advantage but the fact its a horable Operating system. Besides its easer to install linux than go through with cracking vista.

I wonder when MS will release a DX10 patch for xp...

No one wants Vista- it takes a gaming computer to run correctly and even then you never know if things will work. It's sad that Vista isn't even worth pirates' time to take. If all Microsoft is worried about is people pirating, then I'd say they are on the right track. Just make an OS that no one wants!

Vista doesn't have a high counterfit rate because no one wants to even steal it. Most of the geeks who go through the trouble to pirate operating systems are the ones who will say how Vista sucks and how XP can do everything Vista can do. But, Microsoft's data on WGA has already been proven to be inaccurate and either biased or blind, so it's a moot point.

fewer people want Vista?

Vista is just as easy to crack/hack as XP...It's just that the people that are into that would rather use XP and not Vista.

Isn't the fact that lower rates of piracy are the direct result of the fact that no one wants Vista?

It would actually appear that Vista is 50% more despised then XP, so people continue to pirate that instead.

This should be more of an indication that Vista is a failure... because it is just as easy to hijack as XP is.

Is it Vista's more advanced security thwarting would-be hacks or is it a lack of interest in the product!? I would say it is the former.

Of course the Counterfeit rate is lower. No one wants Vista desperately enough to pirate it.

1. Another way to spin this story is to say, "People hate Vista so much, that they aren't even TRYING to steal it.

2. In response to the last line of the article: What? Exactly how can a person with a legit install be affected by a "pirate" with a different machine? That's just ridiculous.

A likely scenario is that Vista's authentication hassle outweighs any slim advantages it could have over XP, so there is much less interest in installing pirate versions of the OS.

I think maybe they're brainstorming on how to promote Vista so that anyone will use it. Pirates are good if it gets more people talking about Vista being good or even "okay". I think maybe they're realizing that pirates are sort of the early adopters too. You could think of this as giving away free copies of Vista if you can demonstrate a certain amount of acumen.

Why would any one want a beta operating system when xp is way better and easy to pirated a copy? It is easy to see why it is half of xp plus it hasnt been out that long.

/*
Customers want to know the status of their systems, and how to take action if it turns out they were victimized," according to Microsoft VP Mike Sievert.
*/

Actually, I don't. I bought my (one, for trial) Vista system from Dell, and I don't want to EVER spend any cycles (human or CPU) trying to figure out if I have a valid license. Ever.

And hooray, SP1 is going to change my experience. Imagine my excitement.

They can try to spin this any way they want, but I, as an end user (remember them?) am gaining absolutely nothing from this continual quest to prove that I have a valid license. Not even the satisfaction of knowing that piracy is down and my price is supposedly lower because of it. That's only true if my time is worth absolutely nothing, which appears to be Micro$oft's stance.

Mircosoft can "try" and prevent counterfeit copys of Vista, yet the reason why no one counterfeits them is because Vista is awful no one wants Vista.

the #'s are only half because true priates know that vista is broke and dont want to switch to it...

Windows Vista is a piracy deterrent by virtue of itself. Who would pirate an operating system no one wants?

Sure Microsoft makes it sound that their software is "good" and it's harder to steal, when really its just that nobody wants to run that crap (vista) on their computers--thus less pirated copies....they also left out that vista has only been out less than a year, and XP came out in 2000-2001 so it has had 6-7 years on the market versus Vista.

...wants it.

"The service pack will also help prevent users with legitimate installs from being affected by Vista pirates."

What does this mean exactly? ROTFL

Who would want to counterfeit VISTA ?? XP is a more popular and less resource hungry OS than VISTA. Vista is still buggy and very demanding on the computers resources. XP sales still remain very healthy and VISTA sales keep declining. In a situation like this, who would want to counterfeit VISTA?

"Microsoft claims that its next-generation operating system is more robust at preventing counterfeit attempts." Yep! No one wants it so this explains things!

"Customers want to know the status of their systems, and how to take action if it turns out they were victimized"

If you bought Vista you were victimized by Microsoft!

Or, it could just be that vista is a horrible OS and no one is TRYING to pirate it...

Vista has half of the customer base XP had at this point in its lifetime among legit customers, too. Why would the customer base be any different in the piracy world than in the buyer's world?

Aside from that, why would one bother with copying Vista vs. XP? It's sluggish and DRM'd to the teeth. If I were a counterfeiter, I'd avoid Vista so that it would be faster and less annoying to do the things I wanted to do with my system. So far Vista doesn't have anything going for it at all (all of you who will reply to my comment saying "except for DirectX 10" ought to do some research first) and so far its biggest achievement is to piss off legitimate users.

I don't even like XP's restrictions. I have to run an "at" or "runas" command to kill some of the processes in the process tree, or download an external program. I should be able, as the admin, to kill anything I want, system stability be damned. I own my computer and it should do anything I tell it to do, bar none. Vista is just another attempt by M$ and the content mafia to restrict our rights. Why would a software pirate even bother with that?

So to summarize, DUH. Thanks for the information, Captain Obvious...

It could also be an indicator, of how little impact Vista has made towards the business world's IT strategy, as well as the average consumer's 'must have' shortlist. Given the familiarity & stability of XP since it's introduction, and the lack of Vista drivers the high upgrade costs associated with Vista's deployment, it seems that they are having a hard time giving it away, much less charging for it.

Another reason I'll never install Vista. After XP dies for good I'll more to a differt OS. Vista is not in my future. But who knows, in 5 years after I'm done with XP maybe Microsoft will change its ways. Doubt it, but you never know.

why pirate something that is inferior to it's predecessor?

There's a joke I remembered when I read this article, about uncatchable Joe:

a group of cowboys sitting in the bar. Suddenly someone dashes into the bar, runs around and dashes out. New cowboy asks: "who is that?" - "this is Uncatchable Joe, nobody ever managed to catch him!" - "why did noone catch him?" - "who would bother doing that?.."

What this fails to mention is that Vista still has a significantly less market share than XP, and I would bet that the kinds of people who would want illegit copies of windows are content with XP, and likely will be with the upcoming release of SP3.

It's simple economics: If pirates can use XP without having to worry about the problems with cracking Vista, then they will always prefer the substitute good that (1) they already have and (2) is pretty much the same thing, if not better.

People steal software they want. Most people don't want Vista, it just comes bundled with hardware, so of course there aren't going to be as many pirated copies. You don't see people pirating software to install that stupid paperclip office assistant either.

And there haven't been any dog poop thefts in years... Of course no one is bootlegging it, it's garbage. MS mus have been hit on the collective head to tout a stat like this. Like a car manufacturer stating taht thier cars are the least stolen. "Wow, even criminals don't want them."

Sure, the piracy rate is down for Vista, why go to the extra trouble of pirating software that doesn't work anyway?
:P

...because nobody actually *wants* to pirate Vista, much less buy it.

*ehm* I don't think the lack of Vista Piracy is because of improved security... ;)

This makes me laugh, most pirates wouldn’t touch Vista with a 10 foot pole, cracking the OS is easy, but any good pirate knows that windows vista is the crappiest OS out there. It looks like Microsoft puked up all over the hard drive. Its less stable, it uses more resources, and it is slower. Do you really think a hacker would want gui interface over performance? Did you think making Direct X 10 run only on Vista would convince anyone to change over to the new os? DirectX 9.0 L is simply a renamed and refurbished DirectX 10 for Windows XP. It will make DirectX 10 games to work on Windows XP.

Vista isn't immune to pirating. Just nobody wants it. I don't see why they spend so much time trying to prevent pirating of this operating system.

Just about every computer sold comes with Windows even if you don't want it. So the make their money. Exactly who would pirate it anyway? A hand full of people who build their own systems.

It can't be installed in older computers because it's too large. People who are buying low end computers with legitimate copies are complaining about it being too slow. Takes fifteen minutes just to boot up. It's becoming too cumbersome to use.

Till someone who know what they are doing gets a hold of it.... Where there is a will there is a way.

Well, Duh! Why would even thieves want to steal a completely non useable OS that would require them to upgrade their hardware? Not everyone drinks the koolaid. MS has a loser here, and should just decide that they really are in the Software Business, and not the OS business.

my .02 cents worth.

...is that nobody really WANTS Vista. Why bother when XP is good enough?

...hell is this supposed to mean?
"The service pack will also help prevent users with legitimate installs from being affected by Vista pirates."
I wonder what garbage it will be this time...

I wonder if anyone thinks Vista is inferior. I just can't tell; there aren't enough comments.

Whenever I her that term used, I just want to scream. It means that the organization is viewing things from ten thousand feet, and not from the ground. Reality is on the ground, where the troops have their boots.

How they would even know such info. If it is cracked, then it is not phoning home, or it is cracked but we want to know how many is cracked, or it is cracked but we cannot disable the functionality or or or or our sale is so down WE WANT you think it is GOOOoood_ OS, please customers, buy our product, we wont be able to make more crap

Perfect time for google to release OS

I just wonder if the guys that wrote the press release really believe that Vista's security is the reason for the lack of piracy. Or, are they sitting around having a few laughs right now wondering if anyone bought their story?

If these guys truly believe that DRM is preventing this, we are all in a heap o' trouble. They'll just keep piling it on.

All you need is a copy with a VLK and you're in. And the pirates are way beyond that. All DRM does is keep honest people from being able to use the product in a fair use manner.

All WGA does is waste my time, at best. At worst, who knows what information is being sent to MS from my computer when I update? Or what they're putting on my computer?

Linux - Live Free or Die!

however, no one wants to use it, not even here in manila.

Heh, and they completely ignore the bit in Vista Ultimate and higher editions that Microsoft put there to aid large IT departments, which can be fooled into allowing the trial to last 99 years. MS really blew this one, badly, you don't even have to 'pirate' the OS, just borrow a friend's disc, set your comp clock in the BIOS to 2099, install, reset date to 2007. Vista never knew what hit it.

Fuckers.

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRgh! You can keep your bloody Vista and give me Winders XP or I'll make you walk the plank! RRRRRRRRRRRRRgh!

LOL!

Where is all the Vista lovers after 57 comments?

Less demand for Vista means less pirate copies.

There is basically no use for people to pirate Vista yet because of XP. Installing a backup of Vista on Grandma's or your kid's machine is useless when you can just do it with XP. If Vista sticks around in the next 3-4 yrs this will change.

I bet the people whining about how much vista sucks haven't even tried it. Or if they did, they installed in on their 4 year old PC. The people I know who have vista on new machines love it and they thankfully haven't called me AT ALL to fix anything as they did bi-weekly with XP.

I am using vista 32bit ULTIMATE on my ancient rig--

AMD 3200 64bit (single core)
1gb pc 3200 (only running 333mhz)
80GB hard drive (7200 rpm)
Geforce 6600GT 128mb

Believe it or not, but games like Oblivion play almost as good on this, as it did when I had XP. I am noticing little difference in any games. Boot times are about the same even.

All this hate for VISTA, and like a guy before me said, I bet most of them haven't tried it, or looked at it for a few minutes at their friends house and came to a bias conclusion quickly.

Yes I like XP over vista... There are some annoying problems..... But it isn't all that bad fellows!!!!

Was XP loved when it came out?

Let me ask again...

Was XP loved when it came out?!!


EVERYBODY and their grandma hated it.... But eventually, it became the standard and we haven't looked back at WIN98 since.

The same will probably happen with Vista, no matter how much you hardcore techies hate it... The vast majority of people WILL BE BUYING VISTA in the future, because they don't know better. They will buy what is new, because they believe new means better.

Otherwise, all I can say is...> Thank goodness I didn't have to pay a dime for my copy of Vista w00t! And technically my copy isn't even pirated or stolen =D

It looks and feels like a disney OS! Which self respecting hacker would want to steal this piece of garbage? i'm off to shave with my brand new israeli personna, thanks encure!

Sure the counterfeit rate is half of Vista - I bought Vista and used it for a couple of weeks and downgraded to XP and am as happy as a lark! People who use pirated software are generally pretty knowledgeable about computers and wouldn't use such a lousy product, even for free!

Wonder how they knew less people r stealing illegal vista? This is what they did: They (Microsoft) made illegal copies of XP and Vistas and put it on some torrent site. Most people downloaded XP (even though it's like a decade old!) and about half as much downloaded vista (just coz they had the bandwidth to waste). Conclusion: Vista is so secure only half of the people stole it. This is the genius of Microsoft. LOL

to do what the older stuff is already doing fine, and far as ive seen, doing it better?

do i own vista? no.
why? mostly because i already own XP and i have no money for vista even if i wanted it.

to the point:
XP does everything vista does. just as good, and often better. and so far, i havent seen anything on vista that XP can't do.

and dont start on DX10. ive been reading the reviews of DX10 games. (lol)
so far, it appeares to be DX9 with a new name and a vista code base.
and there's not much of a graphical improvement if some of these things are true. usually if there is any improvement, its at a heavy cost for a medicore improvement.

so to the last posters asking if we've actully used vista or not.

my answer: why bother?
show me some things vista can do, that XP cant. or that vista does better i'll review your words and statement.
(to note: vista falling like a rock off a building does not count as it doing something XP can't)

sure vista's all hot and new.... ice cold crap rather..
but so was windows ME, but that hit the ground faster then a falling 747.

as for people adopting it and forceing a change?
hmm its possiable. but as word spreads that it sucks and does nothing worth while at all, they may buy the machine but have their tech friend format it and install XP again heh

because persoanlly, i dont know a single person who has a nice thing to say about vista that is useing it.

correction, they did have 1 good thing to say about it:

they were happy they didnt have the waste the time to install it :p but their mad they had to waste the time to remove it...

true story

"All this hate for VISTA, and like a guy before me said, I bet most of them haven't tried it, or looked at it for a few minutes at their friends house and came to a bias conclusion quickly."

I have vista and i hated it. Vista is the only thing my laptop would accept without having to get my hands dirty to slipstream the drivers so xp can run probably.

I'd been using it for 4 months, I hated it... I get errors out of no where, BSOD, and forever "Vista is trying to find a solution" but they NEVER ONCE able to.

Seriously, everyone loves to be "updated. Unlike games that people ought to badmouth spreading rumors. If the OS is good, we advise friends to use it, and apparently Vista isnt. And those who migrate from win98 to winxp as to be an idiot to not find that XP runs alot smoother than problematic win98, or winME. Even before winxp had SPs out, I like WinXP instantly because it starts up faster than my Win2k.

It's a totally different thing!

Haven't called me at all?
LOL LOL LOL

Everyone I know that owns vista has called me to help them with their system. From office documents to install the software they are used to (original).

Shure it will work without problem if you buy something close to a gaming machine and you decide to buy new versions of all your programs. Which is totally stupid; if last year's or older version is working for me why should I buy the latest.

For you to know, I have 8 computers in all flavors and the newest one (also the most powerfull; core 2 due 2G ram) came with the latest vista and happens to be the slowest to boot even when tested against an old 100 MHz pentium (win98se)

Gamebro - "Oblivion play almost as good on this, as it did when I had XP. I am noticing little difference in any games."

Gamebro - "EVERYBODY and their grandma hated it.... But eventually, it became the standard and we haven't looked back at WIN98 since."

Gamebro - "no matter how much you hardcore techies hate it... The vast majority of people WILL BE BUYING VISTA in the future"

Three problems in your statements:

1) 6.6 FPS 1024 X 768 X 32 Oblivian on your Geforce 6600GT 128mb AMD 3200 64bit (single core). OMG LOL you're not noticing a difference between vista and XP because the screen doesn't move. OMG LOL Write a book on 'Freeze Frame Gaming' LOL OMG HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA dude you are wayyyyyyyyy too funny, seriously was this a joke post?
www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=859&model2=722&chart=294

2) You said "we haven't looked back at WIN98.

The importance in your statement is that windows ME came out in between 98 and XP. The fact that even you skipped over the name exactly makes the majority of our point. Vista is Win ME 2!!

3) The vast majority WONT be buying this in the future.

Simply because Vienna the better operating system. Falling in line with what longhorn was intended to be. Currently you ::cough:: ::cough:: OPEN BETA VISTA owners are our guinea pigs because fixes from vista are being duplicated into veinna. Drivers wows will be simpler because it will basically be a port from your open beta testers.

Please read up on OS road maps and upcoming tech, then you wont be blind sided by your own post.

Better yet why not just surrender and get XBOX...

OMG LOL OMG ROFL

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free!!!

LoL just lol...

You have a good point. Another reason why only half the pirating is going on with Vista could be that they are catching half as much. This is the same as with drug enforcement statistics. "Gee, we are catching fewer drug smugglers so drug smuggling must be slowing down!" Never even thinking that it could be enforcement that is taking a nap.

So, is Microsoft getting better at catching the pirated software or is the pirated software getting better at avoiding detection?

Or maybe everyone thinks Vista sucks and once SP1 is released and it doesn't suck anymore (if it doesn't suck anymore) Vista will be pirated as heavily as XP ever was. I bet you don't see a press release or TGDaily article when that happens!

I many know someone who installed Vista Ultimate, and they dont have a valid licence. I my also know that its now activaed without a key, and receive updates and pass WGA without a hitch. I may also know that the only reason other people dont do it is becuase systems get bogged down to much to be usefull and lack of drivers for older hardware blows! Just release the XP Path for DX10 already

Why do people pirate stuff?? Becuase there is a demand for it. Why is thier less pirated copies of vista NO ONE WANT IT!. Not anything microsoft have done, it is quite easiy to pirate vista just no one wants it.. i love saying that.. no one wants it, no one wants it :D

I have read through most of the comments above and it seems that the common thread is that Vista is not worth stealing. I readily concur. I will stick with XP or move over to a Linux distro (already done so). As I mentioned somewhere else, Vista is good for people that are now learning. Experienced MS OS users will cringe. Vista should have had a Classic XP rollback interface. The Ubuntu Linux learning curve is the same as Vista, and free. Why not try it?
I am surprised that the piracy rate is so high. After all the effort and bloat MS put in, it should have been cut by at least 80%. Seriously.

I hope you computer dies you selfish, immature idiot. You are so stupid I can't even begin to describe it. I think that companies should start posting their software on torrent servers, but with viruses. Then all the immature, selfish and ingrateful idiots like you would stop pirating software.

Moron.

Wow, maybe Microsoft should put as effort into making Vista a good OS instead of a more secure piece of crap.

quoted from Gamebro: "Was XP loved when it came out?"

Maybe not immediately after its release, but I can't recall THIS MUCH HATE with VISTA NOW as it has been when XP was first released. :D

I mean look, its been almost a year since Vista came out and it's probably got more haters now than ever. haha.

If I recall right, when XP first came out, most people initially complained about the higher RAM requirements. But that's about it... RAM prices dropped shortly later, XP gained popularity and almost everyone was pretty much getting content with it, even before SP2 came out.

I've been using Vista for a few weeks now. I built a new computer with a Core 2 Duo, 2 Gigs RAM, Nvidia 8800 GTX, Raptor 150's in RAID 0 and Vista Ultimate 64-bit. I also put in an ATI TV tuner and it works quite well under Vista. I've setup a second partition for dual-booting into Windows XP SP2, but I haven't gelt the need to fall back on my beloved XP just yet. I'm also at a transitional point where I haven't loaded all my software into Vista yet.

So far (knock on wood) I've had very few problems with Vista. I've turned off the Secpol.msc option for User Account Control, and fixed iTunes to work properly under 64-bit. But other than that, Vista has booted, gone to Sleep Mode and shutdown near the same speeds as XP on this computer. And I can play Crysis in DX 10.

I like my Vista Ultimate 64-bit very much. Much more than my XP's or Linux distros.

What I really love about it now is.....that all you poor suckers that hate it are going to be running it in a about a year or so...lol...probably hacked and unreliable...lol

I see it's been said over and over, but for anyone that's counting, I'm another one that thinks Vista sucks. I don't know anyone who would want it, even for free (pirated). Gates can keep his Vista, also know as Windows ME(2007).

I am so sick of hearing how people that do not have vista on a CURRENT (less than one year old)PC. Say that Vista Sucks. Why do you feel "good" by running a pc with no cpu load and no memory usage when you have 5 times what was availble 2 years ago. You can use 3d graphics, eyecandy extra security, video on your desktop without straining a modern pc. You don't have to run near "The Command Line" to enjoy your operating system. You ar not saving Miles Per Gallon in a car. You are saving virutal resources without nothing to benefit. Doon't use IE8 when it comes out. Because new cannot be better, does that sound paranoid...

Seriously, do a search on any torrent sites. There are all sorts of preactivated torrents of Vista around. I downloaded one just to see if Vista was compatible with my laptop. I'm not stupid enough to want Vista on my old laptop, I just wanted to check since I'm planning on selling the old thing and wanted to see if I could call it Vista capable. Either way WGA did nothing to stop me from getting all the updates. Lucky for MS it was just a test and I reinstalled XP on it after making sure Vista worked.

Oh, com'on, Bill, just come out of annonymity already LOL.
If you offered a cheap version of Vista Basic for home/academic use like you do with Office, this would reduce piracy to dust.

...that Vista should have come with an "Experienced User" XP like setting. Something that does away with all the goo & dribble that serves no purpose other than to "look good".
Think of it this way. If a girl has loads of makeup troweled on you'd have to wonder why. She must be trying to hide something! Same with Vista. What is Mr G trying to hide? The fact that his latest prodigy has so many security features in it as to make it a real pain-in-the-rectum to use! Can somebody explain how an OS can have more security than the previous OS and yet perform faster?
Now here's an idea: What if M$ offered a PERFORMANCE OS for hardcore PC users! Something that connects your hardware and gives you a basic desktop. No "security", no WGA, nothing extra. You can then customize it from there the way you want to, make it as fancy as you want or just keep it basic (which would be great for gamers!) Now how to stop piracy? Well the good people at Valve solved that long ago. And they called it "Steam"....

esactly the same all the people has answered before me ... NOBODY wants Vista so thats all ...

I suppose Vista will be a decent OS ... maybe in the next 4 or 5 years, sith 2 or 3 SP ... until that day only gamers desperate for the last of the last and poor people ripped when they bought his new notebook will use it ...

Diode said we'd be running it, and probably a hacked and unreliable copy..

To him I say, it don't have to be hacked to be unreliable. You get that out of the box. I bought an upgrade version a few months back. Wow, now instead of just installing it on a fresh drive, I have to install WinXP all the way to SP2, and THEN it allows me to upgrade to Vista.

Of all the stupid, asinine ways to take a giant leap backwards. Great one MS.

Insurance?

I believe that many people have installed it and pirated, but they have uninstalled it to see all the problems that you have, I had it installed for close to 6 hours and I keep Xp and linux Ubuntu

I believe that WinVista's history will be like the one belonging to the WINMe

I'm gonna add more of your to this... LOOK AT THE ROADMAP BEFORE POSTING NONSENSE...

Diode - "What I really love about it now is.....that all you poor suckers that hate it are going to be running it in a about a year or so"

'NOTE:' 'HINT' 'MFing RED FLAG' 'ATTENTION:' 'WTF'
*** Vienna AKA windows 7 *** RELEASED IN 2009
*** VISTA WAS RELEASED WITH A WIN ME LIFE SPAN 2 yrs max ***
Hello ANYBODY home ???? GET A CALENDER LOOK AT THE DATE NOW AND ADD UP MONTHS UNTIL 2009.

I mean you guys act like you're on the Mayan calender and can't understand. Get with the program VISTA LOSERS you'll be steered to the better OS a year from now. And shell out up probably $499 for the bloated OS by then.

Opicu - "I suppose Vista will be a decent OS ... maybe in the next 4 or 5 years, sith 2 or 3 SP"

Gamebro - "Oblivion play almost as good on this, as it did when I had XP. I am noticing little difference in any games."

Gamebro - "EVERYBODY and their grandma hated it.... But eventually, it became the standard and we haven't looked back at WIN98 since."

Gamebro - "no matter how much you hardcore techies hate it... The vast majority of people WILL BE BUYING VISTA in the future"

Three problems in your statements:

1) 6.6 FPS 1024 X 768 X 32 Oblivian on your Geforce 6600GT 128mb AMD 3200 64bit (single core). OMG LOL you're not noticing a difference between vista and XP because the screen doesn't move. OMG LOL Write a book on 'Freeze Frame Gaming' LOL OMG HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA dude you are wayyyyyyyyy too funny, seriously was this a joke post?
www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=859&model2=722&chart=294

2) You said "we haven't looked back at WIN98.

The importance in your statement is that windows ME came out in between 98 and XP. The fact that even you skipped over the name exactly makes the majority of our point. Vista is Win ME 2!!

3) The vast majority WONT be buying this in the future.

Simply because Vienna the better operating system. Falling in line with what longhorn was intended to be. Currently you ::cough:: ::cough:: OPEN BETA VISTA owners are our guinea pigs because fixes from vista are being duplicated into veinna. Drivers wows will be simpler because it will basically be a port from your open beta testers.

Please read up on OS road maps and upcoming tech, then you wont be blind sided by your own post.

Better yet why not just surrender and get XBOX...

OMG LOL OMG ROFL

There is a project to create an open source clone of WinNT called ReactOS. http://www.reactos.org Why steal Vista when one can get ReactOS for free?

It boils down to a simple fact, if people want to do something they will find a way to do it. If people want drugs, pirated software, or free music they will find a way. No amount of money or litigation will ever keep it from going on.

As somebody pointed out earlier, most non commercially modified piracy is the friends and family variety. Somebodies HD died and they can't find their restore discs or somebody pieced together a computer out of spare parts and it needs an OS. Its easier to slap a copy of Win2k or WinXP illegally then to go and buy an OEM or retail copy.

Here's an idea to curb piracy, sell everybody legal licenses for the prices that big OEM box sellers get them for. Make stuff more affordable and more people will be inclined to pay for them. $399 for retail Ultimate Vista, please you can get a whole computer with Vista Basic or maybe even Premium for that price with 5 or so less OS features.

HAHAHAHA @ Diode the post runner www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34455/140/

Memo To Open Beta Vista Owners:

Thank You... We need you to test continue testing and going through the growing pains for the masses.

This OS era is all about giving developers time to make adjustments, the 32 bit switch, and developing 64 bit apps. You have paid up to $399 to help the masses make that happen when Vienna is released.

The OS, Apps, Drivers and hardware will be much better because of your OPEN BETA 'PURCHASE'.

When microfluff was faced with either postponing longhorn again because it wasn't ready you never knew that.

You can't see the truth, because you never followed tech.
You don't read roadmaps.
You never really new what longhorn was intended to be.
You never knew vista was added to the OS road map by taking some of the longhorn ideas and simply cashing in aka replenish the coffers.

Vienna AKA windows 7 is released in almost a year now. It will be a much better product, more stable and should offer more real system enhancements.

Again, I thank you for using your hard earned money to continue the testing effort. And just like WIN ME it was a price and effort someone had to pay.

It's not easy to sell someone an OS or hardware that has a near posted expiration date. But microfluff did it again, Amazing...

I'm convinced that I could sell some of you fresh poop a few of times in a row. Before you catch on that it's actually my crap...

Wow the things I see and read makes this an excellent time to be in business. Companies still selling 480P tv's like hot cakes by just placing in bold letters HDTV.

How can you not make money on the misinformed and trend purchasers?

Fight from being steered like cattle. It's bad enough that many of us can't seem to realize, we are force feed various microfluff applications inside of the OS.

It's shoved down your throats wether we can use it or not.

We ALL need the best products/ideas assembled, tested and reviewed. So that each one of us can pick and choose what is best for us. And not this fiasco like internet explorer where we all pay a cost for it (embedded in the hidden cost of the OS). Which then makes a great company like mozilla has to give their product away freely and find other way to generate revenues.

I don't understand why people can't you see what's going on and how it is bad. The OS use to cost 40 to 70 retail. The price of $199 to $399 is not just because times have changed.

They add proposed value to everything included in the OS. Example calculator adding $5 to 10 to the cost.

The things that you try to list as features of the OS aren't features. They are included purchased applications, that aren't competitively being sold. They are being shoved.

I keep saying this hoping that some of you open your eyes.

You aren't getting the best calculator for your use. Your are paying for one and if your don't like it or need more features you'll need to pay for another to get it. So in essence you've paid for two calculator applications.

They should spend more time on the actual OS than working on the next two operating system and slowly fixing the current product to its PROMISED state.

I want then to use that 'copycatting staff' for something else other than simple adding an MS twist to thing already in existence (example bread crumbs).

Just think if every aspect of our lives the government decided to perform it and add it into all of our taxes. LOL so when you wanted to build a home they would put up a 100K wood cottage on your land. And if you didn't like it, you had to go out and pay additional (Ex 200k brick home) for the one that you really wanted.

You would have paid a total of 300K instead of just 200K.

Make sense???

I got x64 Vista for free through Microsoft's "power of together" promotion.

I like it a lot and it works well. I had concerns over using development tools with it due to what everyone else had been saying (mostly on these forums). But, my databases, IDE, etc run perfectly well on it.

People who keep saying it SUCKS or whatever are a bit misguided. It works as advertised. Are there better alternatives? Probably so ... But, does not being the perceived BEST (if there is such a thing) mean that something SUCKS? Nope... there is plenty of room in the world for alternatives.

The alternative would be to upgrade to a system that does not ping home base. Can we say "Linux"

I Do not like to bicker, but there is a roadmap for every successful company. I am a channel partner with Intel, it is available to alot of people. There roadmap shows that any given processor has a life at the premium choice "price point" for less than 4 months. Does this stop people from upgrading, enjoying the latest offerings for the cost of a couple of Hockey tickets. Or should we all use our celeron 2's at 400mhz till we can get 4ghz Quad 45nm chip for $195 which will happen in about 15 months.

We have gone from Windows, to Vistas. What is next? Cliff? Precipice.

Funny how everyone bashes Vista but neglects to mentions Apple's recent debacle that is Tiger. From BSOD's, to lost data, to broken features it's turning out to be worse than Vista is.

I've personally been using Vista for about 3 months now and enjoy it more than XP. Sure I may lose a FPS here or there in games but the overall experience is much better and looks much more refined.

However I think they're metrics are a bit off since you can install Vista without a CD Key and run it permanently in "demo" mode using a program like timerlock or legally up to almost a year by resetting the activation timer.

I've been resetting the timer on mine for months now and it still says I have a legit copy. Without them being able to check my key since I didn't put it in when I installed they have no idea if I'm legit or not, but they're system says I am since they can't detect a "pirated key".

Media Center and infinitely faster network browsing are two good reasons alone to upgrade to Vista. Yes I know vista has some networking issues but browsing a network of 30 computers happens faster than any XP box I've ever used.

Maybe I am an exception, but I have Vista Ultimate on 3 computers I use regularly. My Work Dell and Dell Laptop came with it and through the educational licensing that my School District Uses I was able to purchase Vista Ultimate x64 for $50. Installed it on a 2 1/2 year old computer with no problems other than I could not find a driver for my 7 year old scanner. Yeah it consumes a bit more memory than XP did, but it runs fine with 2GB of Ram. I have not run into any software compatibility problems that were not solved by an update patch (By Microsoft or the Software vendor) and I have been running it since February (used the beta before that) without any issues. I am not a PC Gamer so I cannot voice any experience in that area when it comes to Vista, but I do feel that the Vista Slammers out there are severely mis-informed and just like to complain to complain.

I also want to add that every computer that I have worked on that came pre-installed with Vista that had problems (performance or otherwise) was easily solved by removing all the crapware that OEMs install and using updated drivers direct from the manufacturer of the hardware if they were available. For that I blame the OEMs not Microsoft. I just worked on a 2 month old gateway with 2GB of Ram running Vista Home Prem. that had 60% Ram Utilization at boot up and as soon as I cleaned it up a bit and updated some things it was down to 30% at boot.

Just my 2 cents but the OS runs everything I need to run just fine and has given me no problems. XP is still a good OS, but I don't think a user should force a downgrade on a new PC just because of all the complainers out there. There are a few cases where some older (legacy) software apps may not run and for that I recommend using a Virtual PC. I run 2 Virtual PCs at work for an old Managment Application and One as a test workstation because all my users that I support Run XP still because it would be a pain to train them and run two operating systems in a school environment. Most of the school staff is easily confused and can barely turn a computer on. So maybe in a couple years when the vast majority of our PCs have VISTA then we will use it.

...nobody wants it. I purchased windows vista but it sucked so bad I went back to xp.

The argument as I see it is not whether Vista is reliable or not, having used it I can tell you its very reliable, but so is XP as long as you install it on good hardware. I’ve been running XP for five years and I’ve never experienced the dreaded BSOD once. Now I’m not opposed to upgrading, but I refuse to be a sheep that does as MS wants by upgrading every time they put out an OS. The issue as I see it is this:

1- Was Vista Needed?
2- Can you accomplish anything with Vista that you can’t with XP?

I also think a lot of you fail to understand the purpose of an OS in the first place; it’s merely a placeholder (of sorts) for your applications. I run XP as my OS but I use Photoshop, Premiere, & Flash, and as long as the OS doesn’t get in my way I’m happy. Once MS ripped out WinFS (which was supposed to make the OS more database centric) it just became a waste of time. This is the issue with Vista as I see it, it just wasn’t needed.

'crack-proof' apps. Years ago, the makers of 3D Studio Max said that the most recent version would take 20,000 years to crack. It was cracked within a week of that claim.

[It's like that Monty Python skit, "Yes, this is Mr. Sutter. You must take every number he gives you and divide it by 1,000,000." -Rick]

I don't like bickering as well. I just want us all to be educated consumers and not steered like cattle as you would have us to be.

NormalVistaUser I'm not sure what your purpose for adding 'I am a channel partner with Intel' was, but the things we are discussing doesn't need channel just common sense. To the point you're comparing apples to oranges. Processors road maps are meant to be short, but you'd be a fool to buy every new new CPU available

A consumers purpose for a roadmap is to have an idea of upcomming changes. And evaluate all of your needs vs what is available and what is worth it.

Before we beging the discussion I must first inform you that the far majority of pc system us no more than just that celeron 2's.

Because I guess you're not going to believe this but internet browsing, word, excel, picture viewer, printing, solitaire and media players DON'T require quad core or dual core for that matter.

Actually those system for the majority far exceed their need. So as you bring up celeron 2 in a degrading manor. You need to read up on the current state of affair in the PC world.

Maybe some of the other intel partners or whatever should have shared that with you.

For years Intel was pumping out useless variation of over kill processors that really added nothing in real value other than give intel a chance to beat their chest with many announcements.

IMO this is when AMD was at it's best and caught intel slipping. They had less processor offerings and simply sat back and said "that's great, con grats to you, but your new crap still doesn't beat the processor we made 4 months ago, plus it cost 100 to 400 more".

Now lets discuss your statement "any given processor has a life at the premium choice "price point" for less than 4 months. Does this stop people from upgrading, enjoying the latest offerings".

The answer is yes, because the masses don't upgrade to the latest processor every release. As an example of the people who purchased new dual core they didn't abandon it immediately for quad core.

And NOR should they, upgrading paths depend on what you're doing. Someone heavily into gaming should go GPU, GDDR, DDR (RAM), and then CPU. Someone into music would go audio card, RAM, CPU (depending on music app). Excell, wizzes, net broswers, word or publishers etc can get buy with minimum requirements.

Everyone should evaluate what their individual use is and what their needs are. Upgrading just because something new is released is stupid.

You can't name 10 new features in vista to make it valued from $199 to $399 (or $599 for those SUCKERS that paid for Billy Boys official pen stroking version).

Hey knock yourself out, I said thank you in the post above. As you stated you're "enjoying the latest offerings". I'm just telling you that IMO it's not worth up to $399 to open beta test vista.

They've had a TON of hot fixes to the so called most secure, most reliable and safest system to date.

I'm hear to inform you that with your logic you encourage these companies to continue to burn with worthless products.

With your logic if microfluff added vista 2 to the road map this XMAS you'd buy it. In facts they could lead you into a new OS every 6 months. Would you upgrade to vista 2 in jan and vista 3 in sept of 2008, then buy vienna in 2009 then and the vienna 2 the end of 2009 and then etc etc etc

That sounds stupid to do right? Or do you agree and would purchase all of those OS'es to experience "enjoying the latest offerings".

I'm gonna add more of your post to this... LOOK AT THE ROADMAP BEFORE POSTING NONSENSE...

Bob - "So maybe in a couple years when the vast majority of our PCs have VISTA then we will use it."

Diode - "What I really love about it now is.....that all you poor suckers that hate it are going to be running it in a about a year or so"

'NOTE:' 'HINT' 'MFing RED FLAG' 'ATTENTION:' 'WTF'
*** Vienna AKA windows 7 *** RELEASED IN 2009
*** VISTA WAS RELEASED WITH A WIN ME LIFE SPAN 2 yrs max ***
Hello ANYBODY home ???? GET A CALENDER LOOK AT THE DATE NOW AND ADD UP MONTHS UNTIL 2009.

I mean you guys act like you're on the Mayan calender and can't understand. Get with the program VISTA LOSERS you'll be steered to the better OS a year from now. And shell out up probably $499 for the bloated OS by then.

Opicu - "I suppose Vista will be a decent OS ... maybe in the next 4 or 5 years, sith 2 or 3 SP"

Gamebro - "Oblivion play almost as good on this, as it did when I had XP. I am noticing little difference in any games."

Gamebro - "EVERYBODY and their grandma hated it.... But eventually, it became the standard and we haven't looked back at WIN98 since."

Gamebro - "no matter how much you hardcore techies hate it... The vast majority of people WILL BE BUYING VISTA in the future"

From the posting content from open beta vista users, it's no wonder why they got suckered into microfluffs crap.

You can't name 10 features of the new of that is better or new. Nor can you understand what a road map is.

Hey Bob let me help you in case you too are a follower of the Mayan calender (which is nothing to be ashamed about, because it's a more accurate calender).

Follow me Bob, Diode, Gamebro, Opicu etc etc etc

PLEASE STOP POSTING ABOUT HOW WE'LL BE USING VISTA IN 2 YEARS, 4 TO 5 YEARS ETC.

VIENNA AKA WINDOWS 7 WILL BE RELEASED IN 2009 INSTEAD OF 2010.

On my calender it is early december 2007. when I add a year to it (AKA 12 months on our calener) that brings us to the end of 2008. If I then add exactly 1 more month amazingly ON MY CALENDER we go to 2009 (OMG isn't that amazing).

By your continuous posting of vista in many years from now, it's very obvious that:
1) you're in BIG TIME denial
2) can't read
3) can't comprehend
4) have wishful thinking well beyond the norm
5) plan on blowing up microfluff and all of their facilities prior to 2009
6) getting together and bribing MS to set the date back
7) are in a liberal prison where updates don't come to often


NEWS FLASH: Your fate is a very similar path. You'll be herded to the new product. They'll discontinue vista support and just like they did with win 3.1, 95, 98, me, xp etc they'll abandon the OS before it is complete to the PROMISED STATE.

Wow you guys can post until you're blue in the face, but UNTIL YOU LOOK, READ AND COMPREHEND THE FACTS. You're blindsiding yourself.

It would be similar to entering a boxing ring and hitting yourself in the nose and head before you could be hit by your opponent. Please stop that

You can have a pre-activated copy of vista ultimate in an hour and can use the geniune advantage tool a million time's and not be noticed. That is why they have said "Microsoft's statistics are based on Windows Genuine Advantage validation failures, along with other internal data." The validation tool show's the pirated copie's as valid! IT DOESNT WORK ROFLMAO at least for now. I tried it a week ago and it work's with out a hicth(installed in less than 20 min's{on high end machine}I just tried it to see if ultimate was worth the extra money. BUY YOUR OS DONT STEAL! testing is a different story.


So everyone who said that Vista suck's is the reason, YOUR WRONG

Vista sucks so bad that it can't even be given away! HAHAHAHAHA!

Those figures are so doctored it's unreal.. People are DOWNGRADING from Vista back to XP. Corporations have enterprise license keys that get leaked out as well.

Whomever was responsible for that idiotic research should never be allowed to use statistics again..

Stephen - "It works as advertised", now please don't post and run like diode (who named 'Support from MS', 'Media Center', 'calender' and 'dvd burning' as XP lacking features causing a need for vista. The last time I check I burned dvd's quite well with a competitive tested and reviewed product, not one shoved down my throat www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34455/140).

First cut a $399 check and mail it the MS coffers pal. Because it looks like the Microfluff b!ow boy fan club has you biased as a cheerleader coach.

What advertisement are you looking at? Stephen please explain your buddies ULTIMATE slap in the face to the $$$PAYING$$$ OPEN BETA VISTA OWNERS "Microsoft apologizes for slow additions to Windows Vista Ultimate"
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32757/140/

If it works as advertised why is the company apologizing? Why has there been many hot fixes and a need for SP1?

"Ummm bartender, I'll have what Stephen's drinking!!!"

Speaking of advertisements, I have an advertisement for you to investigate. Please read 'Gaming enthusiasts' section of
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/facts/benefit.mspx

"video game developers are at work right now building exciting 64-bit native games to help push these limits even further. Since data in memory is accessed about 10,000 times faster than it is on a disk drive, 64-bit native games hold the potential for significantly faster graphics rendering, producing photo-realistic immersion and rapid-fire play without annoying delays".

Since you trust and believe microfluff so much. Find out who are these developers? Where are those 64 bit games that MS claims would be rocking our worlds? Why is Halo 2 & 3 only on vista if they are so enthused about the future of the XP64 gaming environment/horizon (reminder XP64 was re-written during the creation of vista which is a weak stip down version of longhorn).

Photo-realistic will be in XP64 according to them, how much better can you get than photo-realistic? I only see photo realistic now only touted in DX10 games, why the switch?

Why were developers duped with DX10 kits and explained how DX10 would revolutionize gaming on XP and vista. Only to have the old 'bait and switch' occur with DX10 on Vista only FOR NO REASON BUT TO PROMOTE VISTA SALES TO GAMERS?

If it works as advertised then why so many hot fixes, patches correction that couldn't wait until SP1 is released?

"Of those six updates, five affect Windows directly (four relate to Windows XP and three to Windows Vista)"
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34283/108/

"One fixes a remote code execution vulnerability in Windows, while another concerns the same problem for Windows Vista."
LOL fanboy speculation was true "two other patches to Windows Vista to fix optimization problems, which were released on Wednesday, will sneak into the Windows Update file alongside the security updates."
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33327/108/

"Leaked Vista hotfix packs now official"
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33282/112/

"Microsoft releases six patches"
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32842/108/
"Early adopters of Vista have found several problems, including slow copying of files both locally and over the network."

LOL explain this one fanboy "Improved reliability of systems that were upgraded from Windows XP to Windows Vista." How can you not have this as a MAJOR FOCUS IN ALL TESTING SCENARIOS?
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33608/140/

"Microsoft fixes more Vista issues"
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34202/140/

There are many more but you should get my point.

Hey did that advertisement that you're looking state that things will be slower?

"Our hopes that Vista might be able to speed up applications are gone. First tests with 64-bit editions result in numbers similar to our 32-bit results, and we believe it's safe to say that users looking for more raw performance will be disappointed with Vista. Vista is the better Windows, because it behaves better, because it looks better and because it feels better. But it cannot perform better than Windows XP."

"We are disappointed that CPU-intensive applications such as video transcoding with XviD (DVD to XviD MPEG4) or the MainConcept H.264 Encoder performed 18% to nearly 24% slower in our standard benchmark scenarios. Both benchmarks finished much quicker under Windows XP."

www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page11.html#conclusion_ko_for_windows_vista

Some of you should give up the MS b!owboy title and join us in the real world pal...

When they deliberately put a stall on SP3 so that more frustrated XP user will see vista as their logical choice, you as a consumer shouldn't defend them.

MS should:
1) Since most companies have entered an era of "collect $$$ now, and fix the product much late IF EVER" why don't they finish a product to its promised state.
2) Lose the manipulation of the public tactics to fill your coffers
3) Claim you want the best for games making a games for windows campaign only to have halo 2 and 3 on vista and shunning the masses (like sony, you can't be trusted with the keys)
4) Don't pencil our money in and take consumers for granted
"Microsoft expects $15.9 to $16.1 billion in Q4 revenue"
"Microsoft is anticipating a full fiscal year, ending in June, 2008, with revenues of $58.8 to $59.7 billion, net profits of $23.3 to $23.7 billion dollars"
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34552/118
5) Stop bloating the OS with your copy cat applications.
6) Compete in the market instead of exploiting an unfair advantage. You collect money for explorer with every purchase and Mozilla (the better browser) should be able to make money for theirs. And not have to rely on advertisement dollars etc to be rewarded for their effort.

Diode didn't do DVD burning in the XP era I guess, because he list DVD burning as a new feature that you should upgrade to vista for.

But I'll state this again, we ALL need the best products/ideas assembled, tested and reviewed. So that each one of us can pick and choose what is best for us.

If you are sitting back and only getting an application if microfluff bundles it into the OS then you are a huge loser.

This VP must be on Crack or something. VISTA is so bad that in my office we don't even bother upgrading to VISTA. They're only doing it becuase MS is going to stop supporting XP because of its end of life cycle. No one wants to upgrade hence no one is goign to pirate the darn thing. As a gamer, IMO VISTA is a waste of my money or even that 50 cents DVD that I'll have to burn it on if I were going to pirate the darn thing. I only wish that all the new notebooks that are coming out have XP install on them instead of VISTA.

XP >>>>>> vista

and here is what it said

"Vienna will be a minor update, not a major release like Vista"

WOW I feel like Morpheus right now... "Take the blue pill"

There ya go bobby, you're on the road to consumer recovery.

Now ask yourself/find answers too:
How can an OS release be a minor update?
Precedence, when was the last minor update?

Hint... windows 98... windows 98SE... vista... vista SE

rick?

[Our commenting system will strip off remaining data when certain characters are found. I don't know what happened there though. I didn't delete it, and I was the one who approved your post. -Rick]

wow, and i thought that no one likes this OS.

rick?

[There's nothing to fix. The rest of your post is lost. I don't know where it went. Into the Internet Ether, I suppose. -Rick]

Wow judging from this thread Vista is the most unpopular OS in History.

I wonder where the 80 million copies M$ has produced have gone?

To put it in perspective... the Wii has been a smashing success (deservedly), but Microsoft shipped almost 8 copies of Vista for every Wii sold. Even given the XP downgrades and the fudged numbers (corporate licenses, store stock, etc)... there's amost certainly 4 valid Vista sales for each Wii. There's a whole lot of Vista systems out there,

SOMEBODY is buying Vista. I've got it running on two systems, both new, both fast... and it works well on both. I've got another 6 machines that I didn't install it on for various reasons, it's definitely not an OS for older hardware or quick changing software environments (like gaming machines), but on relatively static new platforms it performs well.

Anyone who thinks it's as bad as ME ... either has VERY short memory or never actually ran ME. ME was the worst operating system ever devised to bedevil man - torture bordering on geneva convention levels.

IMO it's no worse than early versions of any of the M$ operating systems, bugs, driver problems, lacking features, etc. It'll NEVER be a good fit for old hardware (which is where most of the griping is coming from I suspect), but new systems will handle it fine.

If people want something to gripe about they should be complaining about Office 2007... it's got the worst GUI implementation I've seen in many years. Older versions of Office weren't exactly great, but this one takes the bar from it's very low perch and drops it on the ground.

WOW I feel like Morpheus right now... "Take the blue pill"

There ya go bobby, you're on the road to consumer recovery.

Now ask yourself/find answers too:
How can an OS release be a minor update?
Precedence, when was the last minor update? Hint...
Windows 98 to Windows 98SE...

Why dont Microsoft concentrate more on making an OS that works than on fighting piracy? I suggest they drop the price of Vista Ultimate to bout $70 per license, Vista Biz to $50, & the home things to less than $30, then see what happens...

Full of annoyances, and bugs.
The replacement of outlook not even works.It fails to create, delete or manage folders. It stop or denies executing tasks, without eny notification. Cause trouble booting other OS (even XP), and creates a "/boot" folder that crashes many mainstream Linux installation.

As many people have suggested, who would want to buy Vista? Microsoft had to resort to arm twisting tactics to make OEM's hip Vista which makes perfectly working high end new Computers run like Bullock Carts.

I remember a time when Windows ME came out and Windows 98 SE started to disappear. Well, it was a time when most Windows around me were pirated versions.
Owners of 'legit' OEM versions of ME erased it, and installed cracked versions of Windows 98 SE in its stead.

As such, I'd say that Vista coming out has caused an upsurge in Windows XP piracy - but since current cracks prevent these copies from phoning home, it's not taken into account.

ALL OF YOU, JUST LEAVE VISTA ALONE!!! *tear* sniff *boogersnot*

I think Vista is alright. I can't believe how obsessed people are with Windows XP. Games aside, I see no reason to not go Linux over Windows XP.

Vista is fine, and if it's not, an legitimate alternative needs to emerge onto the market. I think piracy only hurts legitimate customers, it doesn't hurt Microsoft at all.

If you really hate Vista as much as all that, help develop a Linux Distro, or whatev.

Piracy completely obliterates the smaller competitors. With a car for instance, the "car of the year" can be $2 and a runner up car can be $1.50. Not so much with software because of the effects of Piracy. The top line model can fetch $200.00 sometimes and those on a "budget" and no sense of cause and effect can have the best model for free. So why consider a $50.00 Operating System then?

Piracy completely helps Microsoft, and other big companies like Adobe, it helps turn the market into a monopoly without having to try so hard. It hurts legitimate users though. If I am a graphic designer competing with another graphic designer, if I spent $2k on a computer and $2k on software, while my competition spent $2k on a computer and $2k on cameras and other equipment and $15 on pirated software. We both have the same debt but they have a $2k more equipment that I do.

The problem is even more widespread than that. At the national level, USA can't pirate as freely as other countries, so just with that, other countries have one more "edge".

If piracy weren't good for Microsoft I'm pretty sure they would have lower piracy numbers than they do.

I say it's the crooks that sell pirated software and the big companies that are the ones that benefit. The legitimate competition gets completely screwed. It's not so easy to beat Photoshop at being Photoshop... but Photoshop is a $700.00 piece of software... it's not at all out of the question to want to release a Photoshop competitor for $300.00. But with Piracy doing so would make no business sense.

"The service pack will also help prevent users with legitimate installs from being affected by Vista pirates."
Here is my guess on the meaing of the statement above:
The activiation system sees some of the legitmate installs as pirate ones and the SP is going to fix it.
My reason is that...
Firstly pirates copies are not virus/worm, so they don't infect other mechine.
As always, the legitmate users "suffer" as a result of pirates is when the activation craps or protection are added to the software. Apparently the SP1 would not remove this activation craps so the fix must not be related to the activation itself.
Or the user was given a pirate copy but was told to be a legitmate copy, but no SP can fix this.
So the only possibility I could think of is that the actiavtion system sees the legitmate installs as a pirates copy.

people are buying vista because they cant get XP. look at ISVs n OEMs they are all seeling Vista. If given a choice(though some have started to do it) I would buy XP.
I have a laptop with Vista and it simply sucks. for normal web browsing it offers nothing more than XP except more resource usage.

Honestly, you need new hardware to run vista. People with 12-18 month old "average" home computers are not going to put vista on their systems. So they buy a pre-built system at Best Buy or order it through Dell and it comes with a legal version.

People with XP as very happy and XPSP3 is in pipeline so dont upgrade hardware yet.

Meanwhile you should give Ubuntu a try. You wont look back at M$

sorry Vista people; new hardware isn't a guarantee of Vista living up to it's potential. My wife and I bought 2 new laptops last Christmas for our teenage daughters. They don't need much just machines that run office type apps and have network connectivity. So we bought 2 gateway laptops, 1 gig ram, 1.9 gighz processors etc. Not fastest (that would be dad's) but new enough that they came with Vista basic. Not my choice, but ok.

Not! Besides changing the setup of things enough to turn some of my hair grey (greyer), in 6 months both ended up with profiles so mangled (by use) that I backed up the data, bought copies of XP and reloaded them. It's been about 2 months now and no problems in sight. {Yes Linux fans, I tried loading ... Knoppix, Ubuntu, Slackware ... all would run the system but not one had any support for the *&^%$#$ wireless lan card, and being a laptop that was the whole point of getting laptops.
And yes, I have exp in Linux - heck I was using Linux back when it was on about 10 floppys; a, ap and n series including boot and rootdisks! With 4 floppys you could have a running system (not very useful but running.)}

In our case, Microsoft pushed Gateway to install an op system NOT made for our hardware (not enough ram or cpu) so we got &^%$#'d. Don't b(tch at me about "Vista" being good when MS pulls this sort of shenanigans.

As to piracy - until companies will start replacing original media (cds, dvds, etc) for registered users for free (or even just cost of media and shipping), it's a CYA case. Lightning strikes, destroys our media room, all the disks are gone, but my licenses are intact. Now I have thousands of $$ worth of useless licenses. You ask the vendors would they replace the media, what answer do you get?

It makes me laugh reading all these Vista is rubbish comments, when i clearly remember reading 5 years ago the same type of comments except that people were saying XP is rubbish. Are these the same people? Probably.

Now ask yourself/find answers too:
How can an OS release be a minor update?
Precedence, when was the last minor update? Hint...
Windows 98 to Windows 98SE

At some point you need to stop being taken for granted "Microsoft expects $15.9 to $16.1 billion in Q4 revenue", "Microsoft is anticipating a full fiscal year, ending in June, 2008, with revenues of $58.8 to $59.7 billion, net profits of $23.3 to $23.7 billion dollars"
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34552/118

And you need to read between the lines and the lies, as an example MS created XP64 at the same time they was stripping a delayed OS named longhorn down to vista. They collected revenue and said things like

"Please read 'Gaming enthusiasts' section of
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/facts/benefit.mspx

"video game developers are at work right now building exciting 64-bit native games to help push these limits even further. Since data in memory is accessed about 10,000 times faster than it is on a disk drive, 64-bit native games hold the potential for significantly faster graphics rendering, producing photo-realistic immersion and rapid-fire play without annoying delays".

Find out who are these developers? Where are those 64 bit games that MS claims would be rocking our worlds? Why is Halo 2 & 3 only on vista if they are so enthused about the future of the XP64 gaming environment/horizon (reminder XP64 was re-written during the creation of vista which is a weak stripped down version of longhorn).

Photo-realistic will be in XP64 according to them, how much better can you get than photo-realistic? I only see photo realistic touted only in DX10 games, why the switch?

Why were developers duped with DX10 kits and explained how DX10 would revolutionize gaming on XP and vista. Only to have the old 'bait and switch' occur with DX10 on Vista only FOR NO REASON BUT TO PROMOTE VISTA SALES TO GAMERS?"

This alone gives reason to parrot (I can't say the 'P' word) software.

So I'll just say as DX10 games leave the DX9 porting world and fully utilize it. A free copy NO MATTER how you got it is justified and the only way it is worth it. Otherwise enjoy the great game in DX 9 until new vienna OS is released IMO (NEWS FLASH: great game remain great despite visual candy).

Now ask yourself/find answers too:
How can an OS release be a minor update?
Precedence, when was the last minor update? Hint...
Windows 98 to Windows 98SE YES MINOR
Vista to Vista SE NO IT'S VIENNA

If you found somewhere that said it's minor that's BS, post us the link from MS stating that.

"Even though Windows Vienna is going to be a major release with a totally revised GUI, Microsoft made a bold statement: by the end of 2009 Vienna will hit the shelves.
However, Microsoft needs to keep the buzz on Windows Vista for now and so they are not releasing any Windows Vienna official information to the public yet"
www.windowsvienna.com

So you need to read between the lines and lies.

"We are not giving official guidance to the public yet about the next version of Windows, other than that we’re working on it."
www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2007/feb07/02-13NextVerson.mspx

Please investigate what longhorn was supposed to be. Investigate WINFS, virtualization (which will render vista extinct), virtual processors, Hyper calls, virtualization stack, Hypervisor (type 1 and 2), Hyper-V, Minwin, legacy emulation, Changes to memory and power management etc. NO WAY IS IT MINOR.

You simply can't re-write the kernal again, change storage etc...

"WinFS, the new Longhorn file storage system, is the basic building block of all applications on Longhorn, and I have only just scratched the surface of what you can do with it in this article."
msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/01/WinFS

Now Read My Statements and tell me where I'm wrong.

1) The vast majority WONT be buying this (vista) in the future.

Simply because Vienna the better operating system. Falling in line with what longhorn was intended to be. Currently you ::cough:: ::cough:: OPEN BETA VISTA owners are our guinea pigs because fixes from vista are being duplicated into veinna.

2) Thank You... We need you to test continue testing and going through the growing pains for the masses.

This OS era is all about giving developers time to make adjustments, the 32 bit switch, and developing 64 bit apps. You have paid up to $399 to help the masses make that happen when Vienna is released.

The OS, Apps, Drivers and hardware will be much better because of your OPEN BETA 'PURCHASE'.

3) Vienna AKA windows 7 is released in almost a year now. It will be a much better product, more stable and should offer more real system enhancements.

4) You can't name 10 new features in vista to make it valued from $199 to $399 (or $599 for those SUCKERS that paid for Billy Boys official pen stroking version).

Just enjoy vistafor what it is. A new os made to power current pc's.
Tounge in Cheek

This future os will be in early beta maybe with the timaetable mentioned above. It will not hit retail shelves in 2009, I would bet your life,and your moms on that. That os will not need any beta. Just the word of say maybe a 1000 engineers on late model pc's to give it a thumbs up for you. And this version of Widnows won't be shoved down your throat, so you will like it. But every other MS os support will be discontinued.
Oh and to make fun and ridicule a person that made a start up comany residing in a garage to become one of the most influential,powerful and wealthy CEO's in American history is bizarre. Its one thing to understand DOS its another to write it.

Hmmm Reading and comprehending should go hand in hand.

I have posted the information, but damn you need to investigate on your own. Expand yourself to seek knowledge. Common sense is also needed.

Let me try this again:

NormaVistaUser - "This future os will be in early beta maybe with the timaetable mentioned above. It will not hit retail shelves in 2009, I would bet your life,and your moms on that."

Response -
1) "Microsoft needs to keep the buzz on Windows Vista for now" www.windowsvienna.com
If you had a company and plan on raking in millions in revenue you'd stay hush as you guide your sheep where you want them to go.

2) They have been doing demo's of parts of it already. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to do several lengthy demo's the product has to be close to being finished. Duh !
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34455/140

3) "Simply because Vienna the better operating system. Falling in line with what longhorn was intended to be.", "You never knew vista was added to the OS road map by taking some of the longhorn ideas and simply cashing in aka replenish the coffers."

You see if I start a project and get close to finishing it. And then have issues to resolve in a couple of areas. I have a choice of releasing what I can and releasing the other part later. Or delaying the entire release. MS deleyed longhorn and then stripped it down to vista.

This is why YOU are not using WINFS...

NormaVistaUser - "That os will not need any beta. Just the word of say maybe a 1000 engineers on late model pc's to give it a thumbs up for you."

Response - I never ever said they weren't beta testing it. Because they are but it will be a much shorter period because as I said "This OS era is all about giving developers time to make adjustments, the 32 bit switch, and developing 64 bit apps. You have paid up to $399 to help the masses make that happen when Vienna is released.

The OS, Apps, Drivers and hardware will be much better because of your OPEN BETA 'PURCHASE'. "

I guess I need to explain what porting is eh??? or tested modules in application that are programed to be modular. Example unreal engine or quake engine and how other company use it. And how a new companies code is tested but the engine remains the same because it is solid in what it does.

NormaVistaUser - "And this version of Widnows won't be shoved down your throat, so you will like it."

I have no idea where this is coming from I never said a version of windows is shoved down my throat. You always have an option not to purchase a new OS. I was referring the apps that are bundled into the OS. Under the current setup you have no choice but to shoose which apps will be shoved down your throat with the OS.

NormaVistaUser - "Oh and to make fun and ridicule a person that made a start up comany residing in a garage to become one of the most influential,powerful and wealthy CEO's in American history is bizarre. Its one thing to understand DOS its another to write it."

Where did i make fun or ridicule ole Billy boy?

Ummm and windows isn't DOS.

The creation of DOS was very nice, the copycatting that occurred afterwards was gross. Go look at his various quotes before the began copying from the amiga system.

There was a time when both apple and ibm used a heavy load of cpu.

Then amiga came along with three powerful co processors. Angus, Denise and Paula (research and find out what they did IF you're interested.

I'm not taking anything from him, so I don't know why you brought it up.