Even though the fanboys keep trying to flame me on it. This war will end in a stalemate too. Combo players will most likely be in the $200 by summer.

TBH a stalemate is probably a win from Sony's point of view having lost just about every format war so far.

Sony is backing the format... they were not the creators.

That Sony has been humbled by the monumental failure of the PS3.

Good.

Now maybe they can focus on what the CONSUMER wants instead of what they THINK we want.

This is the begining of the end of BD.

What a tune Sony is singing now - and sour grapes they're harvesting!!!

Sony is a major player in the creation on Blu-ray, so they stand to make more money from it succeeding. Anyway, they (Sony & Toshiba) should have found common ground to work things out, but Sony could not delay the PS3 any longer, so here we are now. Two formats and movies that are over-priced, but purdy to look at :)

Nothing would please me more than for Sony to lose out on the royalties they WOULD HAVE gotten from Blu-ray and PS3 if they had been resounding successes.

"We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while," he told AP, "until Paramount switched sides."

Trojan-horsing a Blu-Ray player into the PS3 is not exactly winning on merits. Nor is trying to lock up studios to exclusively support your format. I understand you have to do what you have to do, but don't call it merit (i.e. greater storage capacity). Now both sides have multiple exclusive studios, and it's become even more silly. I agree that they should have combined the two into one format.

"Combo players will most likely be in the $200 by summer."

Can I have some of what you're smoking.

If Blue-Ray dies out, so wouldn't 1080p, leaving us with 1080i?

you guys are crackheads lol

Like Sony said... They've been arguing based on the merits. And what do people say? "Good, I hope Sony urns in hell" or something equally vitriolic. As a 3rd party observer, I don't understand the hate from the HD-DVD fanboys.

Do either of these players play back standard dvds because if one of them doesnt then there is no desision to make. I really dont want to have to have to players and in the future transfer all my dvds to another format.

if such a thing were possible, that is.

The fact is that Sony has been faltering for years. They lost touch with reality and consumers in general. Their products and image have suffering serious setbacks and the new CEO is trying do damage control. You can argue the technical merits of each format till you're blue in the face. The reality is the format war has hurt the industry and their consumers. It's good to see that the new CEO is taking an honest look at the situation.

Combo players are not a short term solution. LGs player is selling for about $1k still. The last I heard about Samsung's combo player it that the suggested retail might be $200 less than LGs. That is still prohibitively expensive for any sort of significant adoption.

HD-DVD supports 1080p. It is only the low-end players that are limited to 720p/1080i.

Yes "me"
Even the "super cheap" HD-DVD player plays and upscales regular DVDs for high def TVs and by all reports does a damn good job of it.

But then again I thought all the stand alone players played regular DVDs as well but some do better jobs upscaling than others.

In terms of HD-DVD fanboys ragging on Blueray...I'm not sure so much that they are fanboys of HD-DVD so much as people who are sick and tired of Sony trying to make products that are proprietary or involve proprietary parts for no reason other than to rake more side profit and piss off consumers.

No company has pushed competing media formats repeatedly like sony has. They just simply do not know how to compromise.

This said for all we know perhaps they did want to compromise and Toshiba/etc. weren't willing to budge on a unified format...but based on track records were I to bet on who wouldn't compromise...I'd probably pick sony.

All of this said...imo...5.1 surround with upscaled DVD on a big widescreen looks and sounds great too. ;)

Please dude... wake up. Sony has been screwing over its customers and letting them down for years. And before you compare them to the Googles and Microsofts of the world listen up:

Say what you will about Microsoft, but their overwhelming success and influence had the result to standardize the fledgling PC market and make it a big success. Without MS taking out IBM's hugely proprietary computer architecture PCs would not have the penetration they do or be as cheap as they are today.

Sony, following in the footsteps of IBM, feels it needs to make something proprietary to make money on it. Think MemoryStick Pro if you want a recent example. Take something that should be a commodity, attach your name to it and charge more just because you want to. This is the reason none of us have Rambus memory in out machines... because Rambus held on too tightly to a good idea, and even though it is faster... no one wants it because it costs too much.

Google has lots of power now because of its market cap and marketing acquisitions and prowess, but their focus is to make things we all want to do... easier to do. Search, shop, phone, map. Huge innovations that give people simple solutions that are making the company a fortune.

Which brings us back to Sony. Their standard while having greater storage, has a LOT more DRM than HD-DVD. The reason why us honest consumers hate DRM is that it only hurts the honest consumers... it never hurts the pirates, hackers and crackers. They will always find a way to play and distribute the game for free. But the consumer pays: think Sony rootkit fiasco in 2005, Bioshock DRM fiasco in 2007. And trust me there will be more. Sony DRM in Bluray can be updated by firmware upgrades. And it will as soon as it is cracked.

We don't hate Sony because we are HD-DVD fanboys. We are HD-DVD fanboys because we refuse to let Sony screw us ever again.

Sony's CEO is a complete idiot. Two weeks from Black Friday and the Christmas shopping season he comes out and calls the HD format war a "stalemate". That basically sends the word out that HD-DVD is here to stay.

Toshiba sold 100,000 HD-DVD players in one weekend when all the Bluray folks were claiming the war was practically over and proclaiming Bluray the winner.

Let's see how many sub $200 HD-DVD players sell in the next six weeks now that Bluray's General is waving a white flag.

The newer HD-DVD players support 1080p also so no loss there when BD dies. Also, all HD-DVD players are DVD compatible and have upconverting capability. At the prices that players are now, it's a waste of money to continue buying standard DVD's

I don't care about Sony or Toshiba or anything. I think Blu-Ray is the superior format with the most potential and it doesn't make sense to go with HD-DVD and then basically require another generation of discs to match or exceed the capacity of Blu-Ray. It's all about disc capacity. I don't understand how anyone could support HD-DVD except out of bitter hatred for Sony. I can't believe this is even a contest except for the uneducated consumer who thinks they're both the same.

"It's all about disc capacity" eh eh eh? What good for max cap when they share the same video quality... and secondly, blu-ray no longer has more capacity than HD-DVD and it has been awhile too if i recall correctly.

Size isnt everything. It's a determining FACTOR. Price, is another determining FACTOR. You really need to rethink about the idea of "one thing is everything"....

"I can't believe this is even a contest except for the uneducated consumer who thinks they're both the same."

The reason why you also fall into this category is because the HD format wars is just getting too confusing...

I would like to second that statement. I work in the feature film industry for Sony currently and as much as i detest their DRM policies and so forth I firmly believe that with a next gen format it should provide scalability. The technology behind blu-ray is superior to HD-DVD. Not the encoding schemes but the hardware. The BD disks themselves are so much more robust compared to (HD-)DVD disks not forgetting the massive capacity differences and the superior access speeds. As for region encoding issue (compared to the all region free HD-DVDs) ,well, many BD disks are region free.. surprisingly...

now they are doomed and scared :)
constant updates of the inferior BD format not gonna help :)
we will have another Betamax soon lol

...until HD movie selection dramatically improves and disc prices come waaaay down. Until then, I'll stick with standard DVD.

What is wrong with HD-DVD supporters? Blu-ray is the superior format and should be supported. We are technology enthusiast, not soap watcher, personal emotion should have no part in selecting the best hardware to use and recommend. Are you going to pick zip drive over flash drive because you don’t like memory manufactures?

To the people that keep crowing about how "superior" Bluray is... and how "superior" the PS3 is... this has nothing to do with product success.

The Ferrari is clearly superior to the Toyota Camry or the Honda Accord. So why doesn't it sell more than those models? Because on the price/performance curve it is out of line what the average consumer wants.

For any standard to reach mass-market appeal it has to give a consumer all the features and usability they want at a price they will pay.

While 50GB or 100GB may well future proof Bluray a few extra years, at what cost? Tens of millions of players and hundreds of millions of movies that cost a few dollars more each just for future-proofing the standard. That just isn't good economics.

HD-DVD will be plenty good for plenty long. More competing standards will come along and we will go through this again in ten years.

But until then, as Darth Stringer concedes: HD-DVD is here to stay!

blue-ray is a better format. higher capacity. thats all i care about. ill be happy with dvd until blu ray burners come down enough in price to justify the cost. that wont happen probably till 2009 at this rate... still dual dvd writers burning off can still get quite a fair bit of data burnt off easily until then :) and when a dvd writer is $20 for a 20x its not so bad..

Can't we all just get along? Oh yeah... and screw Sony for constantly trying to inflate their profits by making things proprietary. Yeah, I get it; business is for profit, but please stop trying to take advantage of the consumer in the process. Next they'll try to make ethernet proprietary. It'll be "Sony Logic Connect" or some crap like that.

People keep saying HD-DVD players play regular DVDs, just thought I'd mention that so do Blu-Ray players. Also, the PS3 is arguably one of the best DVD upconverters on the market...

As far as Sony cramming blu-ray down people's throats in the PS3, they needed more space for next gen games, and what are they supposed to do? Use HD-DVD? I'd rather they did what they did than have to swap DVDs in the middle of games. :P

Isn't blu-ray still using mpeg2 video? ("It sounds great though")

Both formats could ultimately fail. At least the Sony head recognizes that the program material is the determining factor and not $98 players. If this stalemate lasts for too long then neither format will prevail because new technologies will come along.

Maybe they both need to compromise and make a combo format. They can then add a few more features like Deep Color etc.

Its region free, and doesnt come with BD :D

Sure it doesnt have quite as much space... But I would much prefer a MUCH less restricted format.

As a consumer, the only real voice I have is who I give my money too. I like blue ray better than HD-DVD in many ways. But I will not buy a Sony product until I see the company really change it's ways. I don't think that the average consumer understands just how different Sony is than other companies. Their engineers are awesome. Products are exceptional. But they are soo greedy that it actually costs them money rather than generating it. Instead of letting the public choose the best product on it's merits, they try and force our hand. Blue Ray was created so that Sony would have control. They basically wanted a piece of every pie sold. They should have come to the table with some compromise. It would have been better for the consumer and for them in the long run. Many consumers stand on the sidelines until one of two things happen: One format wins or dual format players hit the $200 price range.

If we had one format, Sony might not have a piece of every pie, but they would be guaranteed pie for a long time to come.

As it stands, if I am a studio, then I am in the business of selling my goods. 100k HD-DVD players sold in one weekend! WOW! If HD-DVD builds up a solid installed base, then studios will switch. For them, it is all about money. In the end the format that makes them the most money is the best format. If the installed base of HD-DVD vs Blue Ray is many times larger then their jobs are on the line if they don't switch to that format.

From the start studios have stood behind the format they think will win. Yes their support is a factor in the formats success. But it is not the deciding factor as their support can quickly change depending on who the consumer supports. Ultimately, we decide the fate of this battle with our checkbooks.

I don't see Sony winning this war. They should stop making wars over formats and get in line with everyone else. They would be much more successful in my opinion. Watch to see if after Thanksgiving 200k more HD-DVD players sell. Then you will see some shifting at the BR/DVD-DVD camps. Once that momentum changes it will be just a matter of time.

With the new compression technologies available now, even a standard dual-layer DVD can store an HD movie with very decent quality. Dual-layer HD-DVD has over three times that much space, so it's not like the difference in capacity is going to make HD-DVD look worse than Blu-ray. Add the fact that HD-DVD's specification is better defined and that you can go to Wally World and get a player for $100, and HD-DVD starts to look way more attractive than Blu-ray. If technological superiority was all that mattered, VHS would never have been adopted.

Maxor I sell these things..from a picture quality stand point, they are the same! Both are capable of 1080p (i've got the A30) they both use a blue laser, disk capacities are the only difference 30 vs 50, but HDDVD will have a 45 GB by jan or feb, and only a firmware update will be needed, plus with the required ethernet jack on the hddvd player, no big deal to get that. So what is this you're spouting about the uneducated consumer?

How is blu-ray superior? Other than disk capacity (but also keep in mind that the base code for blu-ray takes more time and space to put on each disk)

BD is proprietary to Sony? I think not. Proprietary means that one company designs, builds and sells the hardware (Think Apple). How many companies have stand alone BD players out? Thought so. Now, I'm not saying HD-DVD is proprietary, but how many manufacturers have stand alone HD-DVD players out? One? Toshiba? Hmmm. Interesting. Of course the problem there is that Toshiba is dumping players on the US. Dumping in this context means selling for below cost of manufacturing. Because they are doing that, no other manufacturers are willing to put out HD-DVD players yet, and won't until they can make a profit. Yes, BD is more expensive, but that is because the manufacturers are actually selling them for a profit over the cost to build them.

Anyway, I don't care which side wins, I just want one to go away before I buy. I was in on the Beta/VHS fiasco, and on the losing side. I took the risk with DVD, jumping on at the very beginning, but hedging by getting a DVL909 that also played Laser Disk also, just in case. I will not be an early adopter this time.

Dan

By supporting proprietary BR they are surrendering control of their movies just like what exists with the music and the Ipod. Paramount simply wised up.

Come on man.....EVERY corporation is greedy. You don't think Toshiba is greedy? Please. Of course Sony wants every piece of the pie; before DVD was introduced, Sony and Philips were working on their own format while Toshiba was working on DVD. Sony caved in and joined Toshiba but ultimately lost out on a ton of licensing profits because Toshiba was the one making a ton of the money on DVD's. So can you blame them for wanting blu-ray to succeed?

Heck, Sony even approached Toshiba a few years back and asked them to work on a high-def unified format because they didn't want to miss out on profits again but Toshiba refused.

As for your comment about studios; its way off. Toshiba is losing a ton of money from the sales of their HD-DVD players. Not only that, HD-DVD continues to get outsold by blu-ray so they can't recoup their losses through movie sales. Then you have the other HD-DVD companies who can't even sell enough of their own players because Toshiba keeps selling theirs at such a low price. What incentive do they have to stay in the game? None. No profit=no future. Simple as that.

Right off the bat, blu-ray had more studio support and even in Europe now despite the fact that blu-ray was more expensive. Why is that?

Sony isn't winning this year? Well the blu-ray sales data says otherwise chump. 2:1 month after month in North America and 4:1 in Europe.

Why is everyone so worried? The only weakness of Blu-ray is that its more expensive. If thats the case, then just wait because blu-ray players will eventually get to $200 as well. You really think blu-ray will be expensive forever? Of course not. Technology always gets cheaper. Especially when manufacturing costs and parts are reduced due to mass production.

Like i put it last month, the good folks of China and Taiwan were going to put out ultra cheap HD players in no time flat and would end up crushing Blue Ray. No way they would let 1 Japanese company control things and be paying royalty payments, could not happen. As i put it before WALMART CHINA HDdvD = WIN
I SHOULD PREDICT THE FUTURE, IM SO GOOD AT IT.

Sony will lose yet another format war due to their greed, stupidity, and arrogance.They never listen to their customers but insist on selling us drm infected crap at inflated prices. I have voted with my money. The $99 hd-dvd player that I picked up at walmart last week was my second hd-dvd player. Sony needs to wake up and quit *hitting on their customers. Untill they do they will suffer.

Well, for everyone who keeps saying Bluray is 'superior' solely due to capacity, I have to point out a couple of things that throw that argument out the window.

Over 60% of all Bluray movies are SINGLE LAYER. This means they are only 25GB discs.

ALL HD-DVD movies are DUAL LAYER. This translates to 30GB discs.

So, the extra capacity that the Bluray format is capable of is not typically utilized. This infers two things; HD content fits fine in a 25GB space and more space is not a necessity for current resolutions and bit-rates.

I personally could care less about either format. I did get a $98 Toshiba HD-A2 during the sales last week, but I do not own a single HD-DVD. Price was the deciding factor in buying the player for me, as it will be for MOST people. At $98, I wouldn't care if HD-DVD fades away. In the case of a Bluray player, I believe the cheapest is still the PS3 at $399 minimum. Had I invested that much money, I would definitely want Bluray to win. I get the impression that people who are supporting Bluray fall into this category.

Blu-Ray has 100 GB discs in development that will supposedly work on current drives too. The entire point of HD is to watch uncompressed video at high resolutions. From a movie standpoint, you may not be able to visually notice the differences, but from a data standpoint that's over 3x the storage of a disc. You can't even compare the VHS/Betamax war with this. Yeah they're both format wars, but back then there were clear distinctions between the two. Betamax offered superior quality at a higher price, but VHS tapes were cheaper and held twice as much video. Therefore, once again capacity is really the only thing that matters and it's why I say Blu-ray is superior. Any other features one format has can easily be duplicated on the other. If someone can come up with an argument of how HD-DVD is superior to Blu-ray besides "Sony SUX!" then I'd like to hear it. All I keep hearing is it's as good as Blu-ray. So it's region-free. Great. I never had problems with region codes anyways with DVD or any game console. The HD-DVD supporters act like they have a personal investment in HD-DVD. I really don't care who wins since I'm not flushing money into HD formats anytime soon.

what the Sony CEO has proclaimed as a stalemate, a dillusion. I believe it is only a matter of time before HD DVD becomes the most popular format and will be adopted by all of the companies.

I ordered my HD-DVD player Friday on WalMart.com to get Heroes 1 free, and am very glad I did. I've purchased ten HD-DVD's so far, and am looking forward to getting the five that are coming in the mail.

Here's the link for the free Heroes w/ Xbox 360 HD-DVD player, while supplies last...

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7977181

This article actually impresses me, that Howard Stringer has the insight into the market to see and admit where Sony went wrong (not cooperating with Toshiba when they could have), and actually gives me a little hope for Sony in the long run, but not Blu-Ray. HD-DVD still has a lot of ground to make up, notably Blockbuster and some retail shelves that Blu-Ray has crowded, but in the long run I would bet on HD-DVD. Transformers is really what got me to buy the player right now, but I think I would have anyway because I don't want Sony to control any disc format. They have lost my trust as a consumer with their heavy handed tactics.

I am hoping Disney gets with the program soon and goes dual format, although I can live without them as long as necessary.

I am in HDDVD camp even though I did't want to be. As soon as HDDVD broke the 200 dollar barrier, I researched all the reviews of HDDVD vs BR and came to the conclusion that most of the arguments for BR were misleading. Add to the fact that I got 5 free HDVDD's with my purchase it was a no brainer. I am kind of annoyed that the some studios are backing only a format and then complaining that they are trying to win on merit.

Another thing that annoys me about Blue ray supporters is their use of misleading info. Its like a virus, one dork starts spreading mis information and then blue ray lemmings seem to continue spreading mis information. It seems like HDDVD guys only defend their format rather than selling it. I cannot promote one format over the other becuase honestly there is no a big advantage between the two.

Before I bought my HD DVD player I checked all the reviews about the picture quality, sound quality, and features. If people take the time to do your own research, you will not find any credible evidence that one format has better sound quality or picure. Sure there is always one studio that does a horrible encoding job on one format or another, but in general there is no winner.

The main difference in BR is the extra storage and bit rate which is what the sales guy tells you to spend extra dough on to get the best. Get the best of what? People are fixated at the specs and dont know where they are going.

One thing about BR, BR went over the top on storage and and bitrates. However this doesn't make it better movie play on TV. There is a limit on what extra storage and bitrates does to picture quality. Once you exceed the limit nothing actually happens.

Perhaps one day a some new spec like "2K" HDTV spec will be made, and then BR disc format will be better but you as a consumer you will not be happy. In order to support higher def standard would stil require you to buy a new HW that support this new standard. TVs, discs, and players all need to be replaced. And although maybe BR might support this new format, there is also a chance it may become obsolete by another format. Agan whats the point of paying more for something you cannot use?

The movies are being ripped right left and center hd-dvd is very unsecure, why would hollywood choose such a medium.

Oh thats right toshiba is paying them off to be hd-dvd exclusive...

I don't know how much this can be stressed over and over and over and over again! Neither side is a proprietary format! Blu-Ray is a consortium as is HD-DVD. Both sides feel they have a lot to lose if their format fails. Honestly, I have a PS-3, HD-A20 and an Xbox HD add on drive. At 1080i, it's very difficult to see a difference from 1080P, but it is there. I have a very expensive plasma Tv that does 1080P (just got it a week and a half ago) and so signal conversion seems great. Both formats are incredible looking. Blu-Ray with a standard Home Theater receiver sounds better because of uncompressed sound. Other than that, I cannot see much of a difference between the two formats. And before people start talking about all the special features each format has, I DON'T CARE. I want my movies to look good and sound good and I don't want to pay $30 a movie. Both formats succeed at A/V quality, but fail on the pricing. I honestly want both formats to stay. I don't care who wins the movie format, but BD is much better for data storage on a computer. We just need the recorders and the media to come WAAAAAYYYYY down in price. Also to Shaun, mostly the older discs from Blu-Ray use the MPEG-2 Encoding format. Almost all of the new discs use VC-1 encoding just like HD-DVD. On the DRM note, remember both have the ICT DRM (Image Constraint Token). But in an effort to increase sales, ICT has been disabled for the moment. The only player I know of that forces ICT is the PS3 as you have to have HDMI to watch Hi-Def movies. The standalone players I have looked at do not seem to need this. Remember, Tom's hardware had an article about Samsung delaying their next Blu-Ray player so they can release a combo player. This should speak to the general feeling in the market right now. Cover your bases.

"Say what you will about Microsoft, but their overwhelming success and influence had the result to standardize the fledgling PC market and make it a big success. Without MS taking out IBM's hugely proprietary computer architecture PCs would not have the penetration they do or be as cheap as they are today."

Ever heard of "Apple"? Yeah, nowadays they are just as evil, but back in the day they had as big a chance to overcome IBM as Microsoft did. All bill gates did was steal an existing OS (dos) and plant a GUI on it, which was absolutely nothing new. Thanks to the underdeveloped copyright and patent infringement laws regarding digital rights at the time, he got away with it. He's a thief and an idiot, yet he got lucky. End of story.

"But the consumer pays: think Sony rootkit fiasco in 2005, Bioshock DRM fiasco in 2007"

What kind of crap are you SMOKING, rockhop? Yes, the rootkit was a bad move, which they also remedied rather quickly. But Bioshock had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SONY. Securom and Starforce and all those other PC DRMs have ====nothing====== to do with Sony, in fact, most PC DRM companies get subsidies from...you guessed it...MICROSOFT.

So really...all you anti-Sony people need to open your eyes. They aren't doing ANYTHING that somebody else hasn't already tried to do. DRM didn't start with Sony, it doesn't end with Sony, and Sony isn't even the largest perpetrator...or haven't you heard of what Microsoft did with its Vista security?

Yeah, maybe you just overlooked that fact. And the fact M$ supports HD, which means DRM for HD exists, and will get worse if M$ has any say in the matter. Which they do, because they have money.

And no, the CEO isn't waving the white flag, he's being a good sport and admitting how a rival managed to do well. I don't see anybody else in this business doing that, if anything, it's all flame wars and hate. Instead of applauding his words, you continue your smear campaign.

If Sony had not screwed the consumer over with their rootkits last year, I probably would still be on the sidelines or perhaps had even gotten one of those $400 PS3's by now.
Sony has lost touch with the consumer with their overpriced electronics and consumer-unfriendly products.
I doubt I am the only one who went with HD-DVD or didn't buy a PS3 because of the rootkit incident. It would be interesting to see how many others are doing the same thing I am. Perhaps the Blu-Ray and PS3 would be doing much better if Sony hadn't shot themselves in the foot just before their debut.

Sounds like the start of a tactical retreat, and foreshadowing of things to come this holiday season, with loosing some ground to HD-DVD's sale discounts.

Marketing types always put the best spin possible on a given situation, and it this case, to call the format war a "stalemate" is a glorified admission of defeat. With HD-DVD players now selling for $100 at Walmart, BlueRay can't win, it won't happen overnight, but it will be a long, drawn out blood letting so to speak.

In my mind both formats are generally equal, with an edge perhaps going to HD-DVD early on with its superior CODECS, but things sort of leveling out in the end. I find it somewhat annoying to find people still touting 1080p as an advantage of Blu-ray. It is true that the output of most BR players have been 1080p to begin with, while some HD-DVD players only output 1080i, but we have always been looking at progressive source material played back on displays (fixed panels for most of us) in a progressive format. The argument about transmission medium is a bit silly because we don't see the transmission, only the end result. It is sort of like worrying about whether or not the file we downloaded off the web was zipped .zip or packed using .sit or some other alternative compression format. end result is the same. Until movie studios start shooting film at 60 frames a second, the 1080/60p capability of the BR disc is only one on paper. I see no movement away from the 24 fps standard that is "the look of film" any time soon. In this case, both HD-DVD's 1080/60i and BR's 1080/60p are both more than adequate in the playback of 1080/24p motion pictures. The next evolution of the movie format will likely be the move to 4K material, probably still at 24p. In such a case, it should be a relatively easy and painless update to the hardware to support 4K/24p content, but requiring another round of new players and displays, just what the consumer electronics industry likes. You think that the manufacturers want you to keep you TV for over 6 years? Hey, they got mouths to feed too.

First, let me say I'm format neutral as I have a PS3 and Xbox360 addon. But here is the way I see it.

One thing that I don't get that Blu-Ray Fanboys don't see is that Blu-ray keeps copying and trying to catch up to HD-DVD.

Initially Blu-Ray movies looked like crap compared to HD-DVD. Why? Because BD used MPEG-2 while HD used VC1. BD wanted to tout their space and showed that MPEG-2 almost used their whole disk capacity, but their picture suffered from MPEG-2 artifacts and was soft. Then there was a scramble to do movies on BD in AVC/MPEG4/VC1 because people were complaining.

BD have starting to implement BD-Java 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, and 2.0. Why? Because they don't have the interactivity that HD-DVD. BD menus are like DVD where you would have to go out of the movie to get to features. There is also no picutre in picture interactivity on BD. That is the reason they are going to a new version of Java so they can have those features like HD-DVD. They even said that the BD older players might not be able to have those features and just play the movie (i.e. early adopters got screwed).

On BD being faster, they just implemented BD protection on Discs and I heard that it takes over 2 minutes to boot those. When other BD partners (LG and Samsung) couldn't play those disks, Fox (another BD partner) threw them under the truck and said that problem with their players in the press. Where is comradery?

Blu-Ray is not a finished product, while HD-DVD is. If BD wins, it is good thing at HD-DVD was there to make it a better product.

I cannot pirate either one! DVD's are here to stay just like Napster!

If I cant burn it, rip it, pirate it or boot leg it, I dont want it period.

I wonder how much money did Toshiba make during that special sale. I know that Toshiba got rid of all of their gen 2 low end hd dvd players.

The question is once you got a taste of low price hd dvd playe how many fanboys out ther are willing to pay $200 for a low end hd dvd player?

Fanboys please let know why hd dvd has only one manufacture willing to make and sell hd dvd player and burner?

The fact that hd dvd is create by Toshiba and NEC.

Why is NEC not making any hd dvd burner for computers?

I have to admit that I want to buy one of those cheap hd dvd as a standard dvd player.

The real test is when Warner release their movies on hd dvd and blu-ray, which platform sell more. Since hd dvd added additional 100,000 new customer.

I hope neither format makes it and they have to go back to the drawing board. I can wait.

Sony is now showing regret? They are only moving farther into failure. HD DVD will win out on this.

Sony owns Securom: http://www.securom.com/

Apple PCs never made it big because of their proprietary architecture. That is why I don't buy them myself.

I don't buy Ipods because of their proprietary architecture.

Sony is still upset because they didn't make any money off of the DVD format they developed so they are trying to control the next standard.

It makes me very happy to see they lucid comments here by the people that understand how Sony screwed this up. Keep fighting the good fight boys... the tide is turning. Sony's evil DRM empire is on the run.

Long live HD-DVD. No war, watch movies.

Sony is so proud to announce a 100GB BR disc, but here's a little secret they don't want you to know. Most current players, both stand alone and computer, including the PS3 can't play this disc.

Add that to all the other lies Sony is pushing out their media relations lie factory and you'd be really dumb to ever consider Blu-Ray as a HD movie choice for your entertainment needs.

They lie about the number of movies they sell, as the count European HD DVD sales in the Blu-Ray count. They lie about BR's capacity when it only hold 7% more movies than HD DVD. They lie about how it's superior picture is better when in fact it's worse than HD DVD (according to many movie reviews) Hiding the fact the Blu-Ray discs are physically more fragile and have a much shorter life expectancy. Hiding the problems with DRM, and region codes they are having. And, hiding that their specification is constantly changing causing all kinds of havoc with 3rd party player manufacturers. They just won't stop at nothing to get a media format to win in the market place.

Expect announcements in January 2008. Blu-Ray is losing, and will be absent from the Chrismas 2009 market. So don't make the mistake this Chrismas, as the vast majority of HD sales will be for HD DVD players and movies. Mainly due to price, but also due to the better quality in so many areas of the HD DVD format. And, that HD DVD is a fully finished specification with still more features and capabilities than Blu-Ray.

Don't make a mistake and buy Blu-Ray.

problem is that if nobody wins soon, the DVD will probably win alltogether. Normal consumers don't want to buy a product that can only play half of the content. And soon HD and Blue Ray will feel old. Yeah thats right, the HD formats are getting old. The problem was that the industry has been moving to fast and too slow at the same time. God I hate this so called war. Why don't you get two gladiators and let them decide who will win. Honestly I don't care anymore, I just want to buy a player.

All this HDDVD CHDVD BD is just crud. i dont care who gets the billions profit... just give us one format.... and choose that format by "what gives me the best quality on my TV screen".

simple... it seriously is.

but no.. these big companies have to actlike tards.

Great, now I bet Sony will start trying to make people believe that codecs matter more than player. And I'll have to tell my customers that 1080p is 1080, 24fps is 24fps (thats what movies are naturally recorded at), and that so long as the player decodes its codec properly, both will look just as good.

Blue-ray movies are cheaper than HD-DVD movies. You can fit a HD movie on one layer of a BD disk. It takes two layers to put one on an HD-DVD disk.

Blue-ray has the space to fit a movie on a disk using an MP-2 based codec. HD-DVD needs a more expensive MP-4 based codec. Please note that MP-2 can have as good or better quality than an MP-4 codec. It is just a matter of compression levels.

New processes are coming online that will drop the cost of a Blue-ray disk even more. Blue-ray disks also have the advantage of being harder to scratch.

Nether the Blue-ray nor the HD-DVD standards have been finalized yet. Does anyone not think that HD-DVD will not add region coding after the Christmas season is over?

"But Bioshock had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SONY. Securom and Starforce and all those other PC DRMs have ====nothing====== to do with Sony"


Securom is owned by who? You guessed it:
SONY!!!!

Go to http://www.securom.com/ and check the bottom right hand corner of the page. You will see Solutions by Sony DADC.

So you blasted rockhop without even knowing what you are talking about.

You fool, blu-ray can come out on dual-layer as well.

Some people pointed out that BD was better than HDDVD because of data capacity.
But you should realize one thing - there is a certain threshold of visual quality which doesn't need to be pushed further once it is reached. Human eyes are pretty bad, there's no point watching a 4K content on a home TV set, because you simply cannot see the difference to lower-def formats (1080p, for example). It's the same as with CDs, which are already good enough for most people (if it wasn't, everyone would have a SACD player at home).
The same holds for video games and their content. There's no point in increasing the texture resolution and 3D-models complexity (thus needing more storage space for games) infinitely because you won't be able to tell the difference once certain threshold is crossed. Well, you may stuff the game up with lots of cinematic content (in h.264 for expamle) but it is no real improvement to the game itself (you may only watch it, not interact). Some games even shift from classical prerendered video cutscenes to rendered content (The Witcher and Spellforce for example), which greatly relieves the required medium capacity.
I think that 30 gigs of HD-DVD are enough for games and video. When the extra 20 gigs of BD start to matter, it will be more because of human stupidity (wasting space, marketing hype etc.) than anything else.

I doubt Blu-ray will lose the format war. It’s sales of software are beating HD-DVD 2-1 and still has more support from coomputer manufactures and film studios. At my local HMV they supply 4x more blu-ray than HD-DVD and my local Woolworths only supplies Blu-ray.
300 sold better on blu-ray than hd-dvd (something Warner would have taken note of). Plus blu-ray has the combined force of Spielberg (Spielberg does most of his films with Dreamworlks and therefore Paramount, however come the 150 million payoff from Toshiba and Microsoft Spielberg just told them all to get lost and he now continues to support blu-ray as he was exempt from the deal, Paramount have effectively lost the only person movies they have worth seeing in HD) and Pixar who will both undoubtley use the new format technology better than anyone, except of course Lucas who will unleash the knock out blow with Star Wars on blu-ray.

You do realize that George Lucas will not release Star Wars until the Next Next Generation DVD format is on the horizon. Just look back at history. George Lucas released a flurry of Star Wars VHS box sets just Before DVD's came out and said that "It would be the last time Star Wars was Released". And Even after DVD came out George waited like 8 years until HD-DVD and Bluray were on the horizon before releasing Star Wars on DVD. If you're waiting for Star Wars on Bluray, you got an 8 year wait ahead of you.

Read the most recent copy of Home Theater and Mr. Morrison answers a good question. He says right now HD-DVD just works better. He believes that Blu-ray will finally get it together but HD-DVD is just more complete now (things like not all disc playing on all players - special features and the like) I'm loving my HD-DVD and at my nearest Walmart - HD-DVD titles are clearing the racks - even expenesive 84.00 series (7 titles sold out and on back order ranging in price from 18 to 30 dollars) - Blu-ray - no titles are sold out, nor are they moving.

Is HD format mainstream yet? I don't know how close we are from the switch to that format but as long as the players arent the mainstream, the price will only matter when it will be huge. At that moment, Bluray disc will win because it is a better format.

As far as Sony company image, I can't believe you guys are saying one company can be that better than another. They all want money and if Sony is "alone" on his side doesnt make it a bad company because they had/have many other reason to try and get their format to win other than making money.

This was owned by Paramount and executive produced by Spielberg. Spielberg is just realizing HD-DVD may win it now.

Walmart and Microsoft combined are in the HD-DVD camp in some kind of unholy alliance.

8 years that's handy, it seems like that's how long this format war will go on

Wow. I completely agree with Rockhop's post.

This will end the war for good !

Sony still as stubborn as ever. I don't know how many of you out there was around when it was VHS vs Beta. And VHS only won, because Sony is so stubborn and greedy, they didn't want to license out Beta Max Tech. And look what happened, we got stuck with crappy VHS.

Mini Disc, now this is probably the only thing I really supported from Sony, I loved it, small player, small discs, much easier to carry around in my pocket than the portable CD players, and yet again, Sony refused to release the license on the Mini discs, until much to late in the game, when the portable MP3 players started to emerge. Too little too late, people gave up on Mini disc in favor for MP3 players.

Sony is innovative, creative, but are as stubborn as the Japanese, they don't want to share their tech, so consumers suffers in the end. If it weren't for the fact PS3 were cheaper than BD players, that machine would have bombed. And it's a fact, a percentage of people bought PS3 only for the fact they can watch BD movies on it, for the cheaper price, and not for a gaming console.

I thought the HD market would have died out, since some retailers announced they were giving up on carrying HD DVDs, but thankfully with the $99.99 HD Players that were released, they have a second breath and retailers have decided not to abandon carrying HD DVDs.

If I can get my hands on one of those players I'm going to go with it. For me, price is the point, I've seen much less expensive HD Players, and prices on the movies seems cheaper as well. This is going to be my 21st Century VHS format.

Devon M

I don't care wich format holds more data or whose stats look best on paper.

All I care about is that half of the movies I want to see are on BR and the other half are on HD DVD. That's why I haven't bought a player yet.

I guess the temptation to corner the market leads people to making the same mistakes every time. But to repeat them so quickly...Who here has a DVD-Audio disc or Super Audio CD? The winner of that format war was the iPod. It's deja vu all over again - the consumer and electronics companies choosing sides, the consumers confused and reluctant to spend more than $100 on a format that might "lose." And by the time cheap multi-player formats come out, the delivery method and business model will change.

So who will win the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray war? Comcast On Demand, Tivo, and companies offering secure digital downloads via cable or the Internet. Turns out people are satisfied with music at the CD audio quality or prefer portability/instant availability over high quality. They will also decide that DVD is good enough, or as an alternative, will download an HD movie to their set top box or computer.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

I don't think the PS3 is a failure, it's just that it's nearly 2 years behind the 360 and the Wii is just sooo much more affordable with lots of games to boot.

All you people that think the PS3 is a failure should look into the constant 30% failure rate that the Xbox 360 has had ever since it's launch. The failure rate of the Wii and PS3 have been less than 1%.

My point is that I don't think SONY is sticking it to it's customers, but I DO think they need to listen up a bit about what we want and don't want in our systems.

I also think that if SONY is really dedicated to the gaming front and the format war that SONY should separate the BD player from the PS3 to make PS3 cheaper AND let the HD format fight the war on it's own.

However in the end I could care less. I'm happy with playing PC and Wii games. MS with it's Vista and Xbox 360 failures. Sony with it's Blu-Ray and PS3. AMD/ATI with it's everything right now...... The list goes on and the fact is that every company has some awesome products and some really bad ones too. Sorry guys, just how it is.

I’ve just read an intresting article on some website, it suggests that the prolonged format war may not see much of a winner at all. Even if one format does win there won’t be much of a prize. Sony and Toshiba and all the blu-ray and hd-dvd fanboys have been to busy arguing with each other and using mis-leading numbers that they have missed something alot more sinister afoot. The customer confusion created by this format war has left many people waiting for a winner, however since it seems to be set to go on for even longer, it is now being suggested that cunsomers will skip this format war and go straight to downloads, and who has the most to gain from stunting the growth of the format war?, having prolonged use of ordinary dvd’s? and having customers start using downloads?, why it’s that’s little company called Microsoft. think about it, no one can deny that in the beginning of the format war blu-ray was close to winning not long after it started. then along comes Microsoft and supports hd-dvd and then helps Toshiba pay off Paramount to get them on the hd-dvd side, and what are we left with? bluray with the most support, but hd-dvd with enougth support to not be defeated for a long time.
Microsoft benefits from this because they still use dvd’s for the 360, thetriumph of blu-ray in the format wars early on would have been the end of the 360 before it could make a profit. Whilst Microsoft is of course getting started on downloads nice and early. Althought I predict that blu-ray will eventually win the format war, it won’t be for a long time and there may not be much of a prize at the end, other than the fact that it will be the format of choice for games consoles. Sony and Toshiba need to team up before it’s to late in order to get the best results possible for either company out of the format war.

I'm a hd-dvd user, but if it goes to high def, downloadable content - I'm for it! I originally questioned why WMV-HD wasn't the ideal format. It plays with regular red laser dvd players - and for us HTPC freaks it was great! 1080p? I was view 1080p 2 years ago (Stormchasers Imax film). T2 - bring it on. That was the format that should have won. Now I'm siding with HD-DVD because as Geffory Morrison of HT says - it just works. As far as Xbox 360 - Playstation has nothing on it. Gamers are about games! Look at the Wii - only does 480p but has the best games, least expensive games, and most games. Second place Xbox 360 which now does HD-DVD, huge game content at reasonable prices. Playstation - limited games, best graphics, huge price point - failed system. You can't market a Home entertaiment system to gamers - thats why its called gaming. If microsoft were smart - they would have went after studios agressively with WMV-HD. This format plays great (I think its part of Microsoft's trump card - we'll see).

P.S. I've sucessfully streamed created WMV-HD content before - sweet picture - with no hiccups - (however, we are using a T3 - most people won't have that).

You are correct about separting the BD from the PS3. It's killing the gaming system and BD all at the same time.

This would bring a quick end to the war (something like 159 - 169). My Wal-Mart is selling out of HD-DVD's regardless of price - but has full shelves of every blu-ray title regardless of price. The entry point is the hardware. People tend to live with higher software prices (look at the gaming industry). People laugh at 20,30,40 and 50 bucks but talk about 500 just to be able to play (400 if you want a PS3) people have second thoughts about spending the downpayment of a used car on a HD player.

OK, this says it all! The Xbox360 is now OUTSELLING the PS3 in Japan!

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/11/12/xbox360_outsells_ps3_japan/

If that doesn't drive the last nail in the coffin for Blu-Ray I don't know what does.

And, all of you "better technology" idiots behind Blu-Ray. Sad fact is, Blu-Ray does not have better technology. It's behind the ball on features and capabilities, which negates any new features it may have in the future. Since all players won't do all features, movies won't contain them. Blu-Ray is dead.

"Keep fighting the good fight boys... the tide is turning. Sony's evil DRM empire is on the run." -RockHop

I think it's clear when someone is fighting on behalf of their own subjective and personal vendetta. With that in mind, you have to take everything said by him with a grain of salt.

I wonder (we'll never get an accurate/truthful answer) how many of these angry HDDVD fanboys actually owned any previous Sony failed proprietary products from the past. Is this hate that they spew so righteously actually... righteous?

On the technical merits, I think it would be a shame if BluRay does not win. The fanboys will say they "won" with VHS back in the day too. But the consumers actually had to wait until DVD to get better video quality than they had with VHS. How long was innovation set back by a product that the sheeple adopted?

I'm a technology purist. Whichever standard prevails will make no difference in the long term cost of players. Eventually, they'll both be cheap enough. Moore's law tells us that. And I'll buy which ever player emerges.

If current prices are the only motivating factor? Then tough. You shouldn't own an HDTV and HD capable player when you're still trying to pay off the new tires you bought for your home.

If it's just incoherent anti-Sony rage... then, well.. I feel for you. Hate away. It won't make your TV's picture any better.

"Some people pointed out that BD was better than HDDVD because of data capacity. But you should realize one thing - there is a certain threshold of visual quality which doesn't need to be pushed further once it is reached." -Preacher

"640k ought to be enough for anyone." -Bill Gates

Last time we heard any official words from Sony mgmt, they were DOMINATINING the format war, and victory was just around the corner, now they have retrenched into a "Stalemate" mode? Hmmmm.....With the heavy hitting deals launched by HD-DVD, it's nearly impossible for Sony to compete. The PS3 was the sleath insertion device, but it never caught on, and it's actually starting to lag behind it's competitors by a large margin. It's only a matter of time before Fox bolts from "Blue-ray exclusive club" and that'll be another serious blow, and the final blow will land when the numbers are released for the holiday season, and HD-DVD stand alone players are outsell the PS3, which will mean the vaunted lead is getting axed. I expect another Studio to bolt by Spring, leaving 1 or 2 major studios still with BD.

Moron, it barely outsold the ps3 in Japan, the only reason it did was because Ace Combat 6 was out (i was wondering how it got so many sequels). Besides this is old news since the introduction of the ceramic white 40gb model sales of ps3 in Japan have skyrocketed 300%, even beating the Wii. It's laughable to think that Microsoft could actually capture Japan.

the ps3 isn't lagging, it's selling just as well as the 360 at this point in it's life (impressive as it had the Wii to contend with directly) and most analysts predict the ps3 will evetually win the console war.

We just HATE Sony.

I got screwed over by Sony's rootkit in 2005 and couldn't play Bioshock on my PC because of their DRM in 2007. I won't buy a Sony camera because I am not going to get stuck paying too much for flash memory I can't use in any other device.

And no one claims we "won" with the adoption of VHS. We lost then ust as now we all are losing now because of Sony's unwillingness to participate in an OPEN standard for anything.

PS
And to the ignorant author of the post above that thinks Moore's Law has something to do with economics and the falling price of technology over time... that is just pathetic. To say you are a technology purist is laughable. I suggest you post next time under another name as "Fredo" is shown himself to know ZERO about technology.

HD DVD is so much easier, you can author and sell your own HD DVD content already:

www.dvdforum.org/hddvd-tech.htm

Can't do that with Blu-Ray, if ever.

That and Netflix is reporting HD DVD is outselling Blu-Ray at 2.4 to 1. Blu-Ray is dying folks. Don't support it, or you will loose out.

Here's another reason why HD DVD is better from MS's white paper on HD DVD:

HD DVD has a big advantage over Blu-ray. The
standards-based scripting language used to
create dynamic menus and compelling extras
for HD DVDs, is simpler and more elegant
than Java, the programming language used to
create Blu- ray discs. This not only allows
dynamic content to be created more easily at
a lower cost. It also means that creative disc
authors don’t have to become software
developers to get a compelling and enhanced
user experience with content. Over time
we’ve seen a lot of evidence to back up our
initial assumptions about interactivity. While
a large number of movies in HD DVD format
contain compelling, interactive bonus
content, only a few Blu-ray disc titles contain
such extras.


Bottom line is if you like movies, you'll like HD DVD so much better.

In addition from never attacking anyone else personally, including Fan..Err..RockHop, I also don't care if anyone knows my real first name or not. I also could care less what people think of my credentials (especially those who don't know me from Adam).

The idea that Moore's law doesn't have a direct impact on economics is naive. I won't go so far as to call anyone "pathetic" or any other pedantic and juvenile retort. I'll just refer people to a good example... the birth place of Moore's Law, semiconductor processes. Everytime a new silicon process comes out, it not only increases clock speeds, decreases specific heat output, but it also increases manufacturing capacity (in this case dies per silicon substrate wafer). More chips per wafer = lower cost per chip = savings to the consumer. So to say Moore's has nothing to do with economic efficiency... Well, I think I've made my point there.

And to those that think Sony didn't attempt to come to the bargaining table or work on a joint standard... I'll refer them to an article from the April 2005 Issue of Red Herring. Here's an excerpt (sorry, don't have a link for you... paid subscription):
"Sony, Toshiba Eye DVD Format - April 21, 2005

In the fight over the next generation of DVDs, rivals Sony and Toshiba may compromise on a common format.

Sony and Toshiba are in talks to develop a common standard for the next generation of DVDs that could end a three-year war between Blu-Ray and HD DVD formats, according to reports published Thursday.

'In the area of next-generation optical discs, we continue to be open in our discussions with supporters of other formats consistent with [our] focus,' said a Sony spokeswoman."

Here's another article on the Web discussing Sony and Toshiba's joint talks: http://www.three-fives.com/opt...ak_out.htm

Most ought to remember, too, that it was Sony's failure to license BetaMax AT ALL that led to Beta's demise. That scenario is not in any way analogous to Sony's position on BluRay. Players from Samsung and LG are testament to that.

Eventually one standard will win. How long and when, we may not know for sometime. And when that standard is prevalent and manufacturing process find new ways to increase capacity, players based on this standard (likely, even both) will be cheaper.

Some disagree with me. So there you have it. Apparently I know ZERO about technology and Sony never tried to compromise to find a common standard. ... Oh, and I'm pathetic.

Not convinced? Me neither (well.. ok, I might be pathetic).

We can be sure of one thing. Some people "just HATE Sony". So much so, they'd rather spread disinformation and personally tear down anyone who disagrees with their vitriolic crusade then check their facts once in a BluMoon...err... Blue Moon.

Why do some keep thinking downloading HD content is the way to go. I do recall that there was an article on here about Comcast throttling users who were downloading too much. Most DSL/cable internet providers' infratructers coudln't handle multiple one person dowloading 20 gigs let alone a whole neighborhood or city.

People want to be able to pop a movie into a player and watch it, not go to the pc download it then hours or days later watch it on a 19in monitor when they have that nice big tv in the family room.

Downloadable HD content is not in the near future. Especially in the U.S. with are poor internet infastructure.

Im sorry but its just not a question of if they hate sony or not, look at the past. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. The vhs and beta wars in the 80s had nothing at all to do with quality, if it did we would have chosen the beta hands down, in fact the beta had a much better picture quality and a smaller cassete size, but the deciding factor wasnt quality, it was price. vhs was cheaper and the mass consumers bought the cheaper video player. and im pretty sure this is about to happen yet again, hd dvd has just put the first few nails in the coffin of blue ray by lowering their price of the hddvd player knowing that if its low enough that mass quatities of the player will be bought putting an end to the war. this is what happened in the past and what is on the brink of happening right now, blue ray may be better, i dont know, but no one else will either if we can get an hd dvd player for under 100 dollars with the blue ray costing 400.

Who cares about this crap?! So what that one player can play ULTRA MEGA SUPER CODING FOR THE EXTRA GAMES AND JAVA PROGRAMS!!

When I put a movie in, I want to watch it. When I want to play a game, I put a game in.

I'm personally a fan of the BluRay discs because of Capacity, Speed, and Durability (those discs can take some damage!!). At the same time, as of right now, it doesn't matter!! The movies are the SAME on an HD and on a BR.

It doesn't matter that there's less capacity, because we aren't using all of it anyway!

It doesn't matter that one is faster, because the slower one is still pumping 7.1 and 1080P!!

It doesn't matter that one is less durable, just TAKE CARE of your property!!!

For "future proofing" or adding 20 hours of crap ill never watch, BR is better. But when it comes down to it, as consumers, why should we care? The dual format players are just around the corner as far as affording one goes. And like I said, watching the latest action/sci fi is going to look just as good on HD or BR.

My vote is for a new format that can store more data, can play multiple format types, and is required to instantly play the movie when I put it in ;) the bonus crap can come later.

Fredo wrote "If current prices are the only motivating factor? Then tough. You shouldn't own an HDTV and HD capable player when you're still trying to pay off the new tires you bought for your home. If it's just incoherent anti-Sony rage... then, well.. I feel for you. Hate away. It won't make your TV's picture any better."

My picture is excellent with HD-DVD and yes I own several HDTV's and a HDTV projector. I'm also a Tech Geek (computer) and where I see Blu-ray failing is there use of MPEG 2 vice VC-1 (HD-DVD). Title for title HD-DVD transfers generally look better than Blu-Ray. Blu-ray would be a great storage or Data disc but HD-DVD just works right (I got that from my Apple friends - although I'm a PC guy). I'm purchasing my first Blu-ray player (for the PC) very soon. I will only purchase a PC player because I can't see the advantages of a stand-alone. I do own two HD-DVD players - a stand-alone and a Xbox 360 add-on for PC. My stand alone does everthing and does it right. Prices are a motivating factor - when it gets to consumer level, remember the 2009 mandatory change is also driving the HD market, so your tire analogy doesn't fit when the world is changing - if you force change you must make it available to everyone or you end up with a two class system, the have' and have not's.

Blu-ray best for Data and backups
HD-DVD best for commercial movies

Thats just my take.