They could sell them for 50 bucks unless you have a hi-def tv you get no benefit and the fact there are 2 formats so if you buy either, you only get half the selection of movies.

If dual players were 100 bucks maybe hi-def would sell, but as prices of players drop, the price of movies have gone up.

Where did this info can from?

With the five free movie deal, that is a free player. If the format dies, I can still watch DVD on the damn thing. I am going to see if I can pickup one at lunch time. Hopefully people wont know what they are buying and just get a cheap-o $50 DVD player.

Well, I just made up my mind.

Curiously the walmart site shows no HD-DVD players, only Blu-Ray

You can see it at: http://holiday.ri-walmart.com/...tm_source=
Walmartcom&utm_medium=POV1&utm_content=secret1&utm_campaign=holiday&
povid=cat14503-env15844-module117144-lLink1

Hope it helps.

Just goto their website and you'll see all the proof you need.

And yes, I am thinking very hard about showing up at 8 am tomorrow to get a few for Christmas presents.

I agree. I thought about buying another XBOX HD-DVD player just to get the 5 free movies plus Heroes HD-DVD at Blockbuster last week. I guess I could have eBay'ed it or returned it to Walmart/Target. But this one I will buy. Hell, the last "regular" DVD player I bought was $80. This would be a good Christmas gift, too.

This is a key turning point in the history of HDTV that would benefit HD-DVD,the end of BD is near.

That's about the same price as what I played for my HDMI upscaling DVD player. At that price, it is enough to convince me to finally buy an HD player.

The barrier to entry is the price. Once volume goes up, the price will come down. I remember when VHS tapes cost 89.95. Then Top Gun added a Pepsi Commercial and sold for 24.95. Volume went up and proved that you could sell a lot more movies at 24.95 and make more money doing it. Soon every movie, not just those with commercials, went for 24.95 or less.

You can't increase the volume of BDs or HD-DVDs sold without the player being out there. HD-DVD will get a big push from this. Sony should be meeting right now to figure out how they will counter (PS3 just ain't gonna cut it). No one cares about the technology, if they did, Betamax would have won the tape battle. It's all about economics and availability.

...a last ditch effort from the HD-DVD camp. Especially after reading this: http://www.next-gen.biz/index....mitstart=1

Richard is right. Even if the format loses the war it's worth it for that price. Now, if we could only get Blockbuster to start carrying HD DVD. ::(

the movies are still way too expensive. Its to the point now where 3 movies costs as much as the player, thats rediculous. I have the 360 HD DVD player and rarely buy movies for it because they cost $30

Yea, it is true. Im gettin up early to be at WalMart for this one. I wasnt going to bother until the format war died, but this is to good an offer to pass up!

http://www.walmart.com/secret

Get added to their email list and get updated with more deals down the road!

This might be workth it for me just to use as an upscaling DVD player. I really don't want to put any money into buying HD-DVD movies though since my gut feeling is still that Blu-Ray will be the standard eventually. And as of right now there are very few if any movies on HD-DVD that I would want anyway. Isn't this player really big and clunky though? It might not fit well on my rack.

There isnt much problem here actually.

- Many people are hyped up when they see the term "HD", even for those who doesnt own an HD TV yet might get it since it's all-time low price for a supposedly expensive unit (even if they havent owned a 1080p tv yet)
- downscale is always better than up-conversion
- it's a bit too much to ask for hybrid-players to sell for $100 at THIS moment - hybrid players are nice but they also defeat the purpose of having 2 different competing formats
- Many branded upcovert DVD players are selling somewhat that price range already
- $98 is really a deal. It doesn't even hurt to own one!
- there are considerably more people owning HDTVs (might not be 1080p) since the price has come down alot to very affordable cost/size now.
- worst case if HD-DVD doesnt carry your movie title, just get a DVD version hahaha

Afterall, there isnt much of a problem. It's limited quantities and I'm sure there are more people willing to get a $98 HDDVD player than Walmart would supply.

People will use it as a cheap up-sampling DVD player. Theirs a big differences betwwen spending $100.00 on a cheap up-sampling DVD player and investing in a lot of expensive HD DVD. This won't nessaritly sell HD DVD movies as the people who will run to a sale like this aren't going to spend 30 to 50 dollars on a movie and noone rents HD DVD's.

but the link takes you to ri-walmart.com. whois for 2 domains are different.

Hell the A2 is a quality unit once you add the firmware update, I'm buying two of these and selling one on ebay for $150 as soon as this sale is over.

http://holiday.ri-walmart.com/?section=secret

exact price is $98.87

This is a great deal for this player, but unfortunately, the highest res it outputs is 1080i. However, if you're getting your electronics from Wal-Mart in the first place, I doubt that would be an issue. I'll pass on this since I already have a Bluray player but will get HDDVD eventually. Hopefully, the format war will shake out but doesn't seem likely anytime soon and this will hurt hi def disc adoption in general.

you can't beat $98's!! who freakin cares about the stupid format wars - this is chump change. I was holding out too - but I can't ignore this - HD-DVD here I come!

for only $98 you could easily have both formats supported, just spend another $100 on a blu-ray compatible player when one is cheaper, and youre good to go, for less than what a current combo player would cost most likely... the consumer wins, at least when things are this cheap anyhow. but, if someones willing to wait a few years to find out which format is going to come out on top without much competition again, more power to them... by then well probably have one format again, or maybe well still have a fiere competition between current formats and other formats, and things will be cheaper as always, but, thats also a few years from now too most likely. but, having 2 competing formats isnt an issue, if you own players that support both formats. and the way things are currently going pricewise, watching what movies you want with similar visual and audio qualities wont be an issue either.

Sure it doesnt output 1080p... but it does do 720p which is where the mass market is..ie where the money is.

It doesnt matter if blueray has slightly better technolgy if its out of the mass markets price range

I pay $19/month and rent HD-DVD and Blu-Ray (and regular DVD) movies from Blockbuster.com. You can keep them as long as you have an account, there's no late fees, rent 3 movies at a time, keep desired titles in a manageable queue, and you can return the discs to a BB store and use them as free movie (or discounted game) rental coupons in-store. You also get an e-coupon each month for a free movie or game rental. This is a steal if you rent 4 movies a month and especially if you have a family. I live on Long Island and my regional BB warehouse is in Queens, so the mailing turnaround is only 2 days.

...were upset by the fact that sony forced blu-ray on it's playstation customers. They raised the price of the console by around two hundred dollars, as a result. Most developers started doing xbox 360 projects to send a message to this greedy company: not on the backs of our clients.

Remember the HD-DVD hardware is very similar to standard DVD. You could make a combo player that is the same price as a BD player. There is no way you could make a BD player for $100 let alone a combo.

Low price players have always kept HD-DVD in the game. I think they would have won already if they had made combo HD-DVD/DVD discs manditory for the first few years.

Just another article from the studios already rooting for BD to suck up to Sony. PS3 isn't even the biggest gaming console out there (NES just whipped their butts) and Walmart is obviously on the HD-DVD bandwagon now.

Please let me know how many BD movies you buy for your PS3.

I was thinking that BD would win this war, eventually. But with Walmart not playing fair (they are at best breaking even on this one) HD-DVD has much more than a sporting chance.

A fire sale is just what HD DVD needs right now as the industry prepares the death blow to HD DVD this week end. I would bet far more PS3 will sell than A2's. As the A2 is not a substitute for the PS3, but the PS3 is a substitute for the A2 because of the built in Blu-ray player which has the added bonus of being better than HD DVD in the first place. With Warner Bothers about to announce they’re going Blu-ray exclusive and another huge Video renter (Rogers Video) going Blu-ray exclusive, the days are numbered for HD DUD.

I bet Toshiba never reports how many of these machines get returned. I'd recomend taking a look at the price of the movies before you jump. There's no doubt that a $59.99 Toshiba A2 HD DVD player is not far behind.

I wonder why they are doing this? Even if it is new technology taking hold it seems odd for the price to drop this far this fast unless there is some kind of urgency to sell as many as possible right away. My opinion is that there are just not enough HDTV owners to really get either format going right away now. By the time the average person has the TV to use these the BD players will be cheap too.

This is a great buy.

I wanted to inform those who didn't know. There are several programs that allow you to burn VC1 onto regular DVD.

Here is the secret though. The dual layered writable are down in price if you search you can get a single disk less than a $1 now. Samsung just announced 16X dual layer writers.

A high def movie can fit comfortably on 2 DL disk. So you can watch your movies and swap disk. Spending around 1.60 for high def copy.

It's a no brainer HD-DVD drive for computer and a couple of these players. Faster recording 16x, cheaper media.

The underground is alive and well... just as divx didn't die HD-DVD now has a cheap foothold and alternative.

Free HD DVD players for everyone. How is this format going to succeed if they can't even sell them for a profit? I feel sorry for all those people who paid $600.00 for one of these things just to see its value reduced to nothing in a few short weeks. I've seen people on the net trying to sell their HD DVD players for 3 to 4 hundred dollars. I wonder how they feel about this fire sale. The same goes for all the movies they bought. The value of their entire collection reduced to nothing.

The selection of HD DVDs are pretty bad at Blockbuster.com and getting worse. Why go through the worry, just buy a PS3 and forget about it.

PS3 will be selling at Wal-Mart this weekend too for $399. Wal-Mart appeared in a commercal for Blu-ray along with Traget on Monday during the World Series Baseball game.

You are full of it aren't you? I've read your postings many times at this site J, and your always bashing PS3 and Blu-ray and then last week you claimed to own a PS3. You are a complete liar and everbody should be wary of this Troll.

I don't know where you get your numbers but that's a really big market and that's why these companies are starting to push HD 1080p so hard. It represents Billions of dollars in HD sales and no one walks away from that kind of market. This is also the growing market which is far more valuablles than a shrinking one. Especially at a rate of 45 million new 1080p TV's to add to the 60 million set to sale for 2008. No matter how many HD DVD players sale, the industry will never ever support it.

Now they can finally get those useless old models off their shelves.

A "fire sale" to me. Either give them away or they'll wind up buried next to the ET cartridges.

That's not about to change. No matter what it's still an HD DVD player and not a Blu-ray Player. Anyone can lower the price including Sony, but Toshiba cannot turn and HD DVD player into a Blu-ray player.

walmart is trying to empty their inventory. whether a newer model needs space or they decided to dump HDDVD for Blueray.

I talked to my local Wal-Mart guy in electronics and he said they were only getting 12-15 units! Just another Wal-Mart "bait and switch".

It provides full 1080p. Go search the specs on google. Thats what I did.

BestBuy has the same HD-DVD player for $99 bucks today, so no waiting for tomorrow. They are sold out on-line but you can check to see if your local BestBuy has them in stock.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8021767&productCategoryId=abcat0102004&type=product&cmp= &lid=abn_sku_4_Blu-ray & HD DVD_SKU_8021767_TXT&id=1158323325814

Correction: It does 1080i not 1080p... But there is no differance unless your using your 1080p tv for gaming.

My BD count is at about 10, with 2 on order at Amazon.com, my game attachment rate is about 8.

Do not fool yourself, Walmart is making money on these, its the hddvd camp (toshiba to be exact) who are funding the low prices on their hardware.

Playstation 2 has over 100 mil. units sold, do not think there isnt brand loyalty there, and sony knows that enough of these people will migrate to PS3 given time, as I have.

you think blu-ray will win, but look at the leader behind the technology...sony. they pump up the tech for their formats and except for dvd, they havent had anything they backed make it to the mass market; betamax, minidisk and umd. yeah their were umd movies all over but then all of a sudden that well just kind of dried up. whats cheaper to make with the easiest to sell players will win.

Blu-Ray fired their salvo with the PS3. Walmart has just nullified it. And Walmart runs the world (faiap) so it is obvious who just won the format war. All that's left to be done is to count the bodies.

btw about the idea of waiting for a combo player. Sorry but it aint gonna happen. Low prices are driven by economies of scale. That is what allows BOTH a standalone DVD player and a standalone VCR to be cheaper than a single combo player.

Yeah this is one heck of a deal. I think I will grab one myself. Here's a question though for Sony. The PS3 cost 399-499. I am assuming that BD drive in it cost them about 200 bucks or less. If they can sell a PS3 for 399 now, shouldn't they be able to sell a BD player for $199? I mean do the math people. They are never going to sell a PS3 for every house. Or every 10-20-50 houses. BUT you put out a sub $200 BD player and you can make some money back off your technological boondogle called the PS3.. I'm sorry did I say that out loud.

It simple. Sony needs to really get in the consumer game this Christmas. They brought the price of the PS3 down now they need to get a DB player down to compete. But they won't, because they are Sony and they think that people are willing to pay for the name. Thats why Samsung, LG and so many others are kicking their kiesters in the Flat Screen market. Microsoft and Nintendo in the Game market.

Sony has forgotten who the consumer is. It not all rich kids who parents have open wallets. Their TV's cost 20-30% more than everyone elses and honestly, they don't look 20-30% better. 5 years ago if you told me a Samsung could compete with Sony I would have laughed so hard beer would have come out my nose. Now. Well lets just say take a look for yourself. Same thing is going on with HD and their game machines. They think their name will carry the day.

In the end even if they win the format wars... $98 bucks for a HD DVD player, hell I spend more on Starbucks in a month than that (sad but true).

Enlighten, does that mean there's no copy protection on HD DVD's? Is it leagal to copy HD DVD's? What do you think the studio's will think of your plan?

Take a better look or go to the Toshiba website.

At this rate consumers win by being able to buy both formats for a reasonable price, and let the studios keep stamping movies until a winner is crowned. Look at it this way. There is alot of motivation to make a good flick now, instead of the crap cash grabs that come out more often than not.

Anytime you have to convert a signal from one state to another or take it apart and put it back together again there’s going to be some loss of the original signal assuming it was done perfectly. De-interlacing must be done to display an interlaced picture on a progressive screen. All LCD and Plasma TVs are 100% progressive scan so an interlaced picture must be de-interlaced to be displayed on an LCD or plasma TV. By not having to first De-interlacing the picture when the signal is already a progressive signal, it eliminates a process of conversion which degrades the picture some what. One other factor in this equation is the fact that you’re assuming the de-interlacing is done perfectly and every new TV tested in 2006 and 2007 tested badly in the way they de-interlaced the picture. So if someone was to ask me if 1080i is better than 1080p I would say No, There is no exact way to reconstruct a progressive (full frame) image from two half-images (fields) simply because the fields each belong to a different time in the film (the scene might change slightly even between the fields). If you combine two successive fields together into one image, you will see the discrepancy. You have to do some fancy filtering to compensate for this. Anyway, the interlacing is used to reduce the bandwidth to approx. one half of what is needed for progressive content (if you consider the same field / frame rates). So in the process of de-interlacing, you reconstruct the full frames using only half the information available - and this has an impact on the output. You can't suck the missing picture information out of your thumb and neither the de-interlacing filter can.

The Trinitron TV, the VCR, the compact disc, DVD, Bata cam, and a whole host of other products sold today. Sony is without a doubt one of the most successful consumer electronics developers and manufactures in the world. I can't believe how truly ignorant nate is.

The origin of the term is due to the total chaos and insanity and stress on this day. THis is when the true christmas spirit of pushing, shoving, cursing and generally being a complete A-hole to your fellow man really begins in earnest. THe finiancial connotation is secondary, as it only affects some retailers, most are in the black well before then.

That said, this is REALLY testing my resolve to not shop at or support Wal Mart at all. Tho, then again, what do I need with an HD DVD player when my entire collection is standard DVD, and my TV is a CRT tube from 1999.

I don't think the savings will be worth wading through rude crowds of fat, unwashed white trash. I'll pass.

Are the HD DVD camp such losers that they don't even know when they've lost?

hardly ruling the world. PS3 will out sell that cheap peace of crap by a long shot.

The problem here is complicated. First thing is that Walmart probably doesn't have many HD-DVD players in stock to sell a real large number of them tomorrow. So there won't be that many more HD-DVD players out there after tomorrow Number two the movies are still too expensive. Nobody is going to buy them. If they wanted to rent them, they're aren't many to rent.

Basically, seems like Walmart is unloading HD-DVD Toshiba's discontinued 1080i players, and getting some attention for it, which they so desperately need to survive.

Now if Sony would answer by lowering the price of their players by another hundred or two while also dropping the price of their movies by 30-40% there'd be a real knock-down dragged-out fight.

Customers don't care which format wins. They just want to play hi-def movies, and they don't want to pay a lot for it.

Before today, the price of a hi-def player was for enthusiasts only. But, now that one of the players hit the mass market price of $99, this changes everything.

It doesn't matter which studios are exclusive to one format or the other today. Corporations are purely driven by money - if tomorrow the customer base for one format is 10 times the other one, then the movie studios will back that format, regardless what they have said to date.

Note, I never mentioned the name of either format in my post. It could have gone either direction.

The beginning of the end of the war starts today.

I know I will be thinking, where's my PS3? How much could I get for this on eBay? Can I trade it in on a PS3? Crap, with the value going down so fast by the time I find a sucker to buy it I'll only get $10......I wonder if it's recyclable.

I just went to that BestBuy link and it went NOWHERE. Went to bestbuy.com and looked up HD-A2 and you are correct, they are sold out. But the price is $399.99!!!!!!!!!!

The five free disk offer ended 9/30/07.
Still a great deal.

It's just like the Beta vs VHS war. Sony's product is technologically better but the opponent was cheaper for the consumer.

All you guys who thinks that this is not goona help HD-DVD is fooling yourself. Average consumer is no as tech savy as you guys who post cooments here. The average consumer only cares about cost and if it's HD! Ask any one of your non-tech savy friends, without giving your bias. Majority of them would go for $99.

Do you REALLY think they will have more than two or three units per store? You better plan on shopping at a 24 hour Wal-Mart, show up the night before, grab your player (if you can find one) and wait for 12 hours in the store until 8 am. Good luck. If your time is that unimportant I guess it's a deal.

I knew that HD DVD would win eventually due to one and only one thing. The porno industry is backing HD DVD.

The new offer is a purchase between 10/1/07 - 2/28/08 and must be post marked by 3/31/08

And seriously, you have to be a butthurt Sony fanboy to think this isn't a good deal.

A new promotion started 10/1 with a new selection of disks to choose from. You still get 5 free HD-DVD's with the purchase of a player.

The 1080p fan boys don't know what they are talking about. Or maybe they do, but they have poor communication skills.

In most tests people cannot tell the different with their eyes between 1080p and 1080i. So while its nice to have the option to do everything its also nice to have an option mind paying less for 1080i and getting video display looks as good as 1080p.

1080i is interlaced but it has twice the frame rate as 1080p. So 1080i has half the resolution per frame, but since it combines the lines of two frame it becomes similar to 1080p in terms of picture quality. Traditional TV tubes are interlaced for example. Now if you spent lots of dough on 1080p TV than most likely a 1080p player will provide the best results. However, if your TV does a good job at 1080i content, then its also true that 1080i will look as good as 1080p.

Check the web and research the subject. Most real world tests shows people cannot tell the different in video quality

It's only this cheap for 1 day, so I don't really see this as a price-drop. They simply want to get rid of old hardware.

"You are full of it aren't you? I've read your postings many times at this site J, and your always bashing PS3 and Blu-ray and then last week you claimed to own a PS3. You are a complete liar and everbody should be wary of this Troll.

Dale"

Did it ever occur to you that I own BOTH XBOX360 HD-DVD add-on AND a PS3? A 60GB PS3, that came in the Tuesday after launch, because I was 11th in line and Gamestop only received 10 60GBs and I turned down the 20GB? What's your PS3 username? Douchebag? Maybe I'll message you if that's the proof you seek...

Seriously, get off my ass, dude. I'm starting to wonder about what caves you're "trolling." You are WAY too emotionally invested in Blu-Ray/SONY. Buy what you want -- I'll do the same.

BTW, there are at least two J's that post here.

Its too bad it doesn't do 1080p which defeats the whole purpose of HD movies.......

I was speaking from a back up and educational stand point. LOL wink wink...

I would never ever never suggest the "P" word. Except for the Microfluff Vista Ripoff OS. Where MS profits has sky rocketed because of you suckers.

If someone was interested there are programs like ::cough:: ::cough:: anydvd that gets around the copy protection.

The thing is you can record tv show, nfl/nba games any thing from cable really in the VC1 format. And not just the copying of ::cough: ::cough:: educational high def movies.

Price was not the determining factor in the old format war, ease of use for everyday purpose drove the sale of VHS.

Beta-max had only a 60 min record time. Where VHS was up to 4 hours, long enough to record your favorite football teams game or just the avg. movie of the time.

People need to be able to use a product, and ultimately it is easier to make, burn, or copy HD-DVDs becuase of its similar technology to DVD.

Currently the quality of picture is the exactly the same, both formats use the same compression codec, but HD-DVD is known for better user experience with menu's and features. Blu-ray is known for more space per disc and has the "newest technology".

Ask yourself this, currently is all that space needed and with the advent of new tech in the flash drive market will both of these formats be extinct in two years when a tiny thumb drive can hold 120 GB as predicted.

Will we all be pushing cartridges into our players like old school NES's or will Internet speeds increase (like other countries, i.e. Korea) so we just have to press a button to stream HD movies and games directly from the net.

This is simply a product cycle move by Wal-Mart. I work at Best Buy. The HD-A2 has been discontinued by Toshiba and everyone who sells them is taking a hit to get rid of them. Toshiba is not giving an incentive to sell them at this price. [at least from what the corporate office tells me ;)] The newer HD-A3 and HD-300s are already selling at around $399. Also, samsung and LG are offering very aggressively priced BD players. LG also has the SuperBlu combo player for $999. This will definitely go down over time. (Everything does.) The funniest part is these people at Wal-Mart are probably gonna hook this up with composite cables that are incapable of delivering a true 1080i or 1080p signal anyway. A quality HDMI cable will cost more than the price of this player. Best Buy offered the player for $99 this week and it didn't JUMP off the shelf. They DID sell out though. I can't wait to see the BD players go on sale around Christmas, but until then, the new 40GB PS3 is the best value.

"What do you think the studio's will think of your plan?"

If they continue trying to charge out the wahzoo 35 plus for movies. they'll get what they deserve.

Donkey Kong beats...yep...Game over!

Walmart is only setting the path that MANY other retailers will follow. HD-DVD will start pushing 300k-500K units over the next 2 months and will force Studios to reconsider the exclusive deal with Sony. Fox will probably bolt, before the end of the year, and then how long before Disney and rest? Transformers sales number are ofcousre a HUGE factor in this equation...studios aren't in the business to curbing their market share...this is business 101 lessons for those "pie-in-the-sky" fanboys who live in imaginery world where money isn't important.

I SWITCHED FROM BLOCKBUSTER TO NETFLIX BECAUSE THEY OFFER ALL AVAILABLE TITLES AND NEW RELEASES.

Paul the two fields in a HD-DVD movie are *not* from different points of time in the movie.
The movie is stored in progressive frames. a 1080P signal can display each frame in its entirety.
A 1080i signal sends two halves *of the exact same frame* one after the other to the TV, but a progressive TV (e.g. most plasmas and all LCDs) displays the two halves of the picture at *exactly the same time*.
You get the exact same thing on the screen wether the source is 1080i or 1080P if they are coming from a progressive master, which is the case with movies on HD-DVD. The movie is stored digitally, so there is no loss or 'conversion' happening to cause degradation.
Where people get confused it that 1080i *is* a worse signal and has problems being de-interlaced *if the sorce is interlaced* like many sports broadcasts etc.
The the two halves of the image *are* from different points in time, the basketball has moved during the time the first half of the frame was recorded and the second half, resulting in weird deinterlacing problems and effectively half the resolution, and a lot of TVs struggle to do a good job of displaying temporally interlaced material.
But for movie playback, you are displaying two halves of the exact same frame, there is absolutely no difference unless your TV has a serious problem.

Zar: I just tried you suggestion and called 7 of my friends to see what they thought. 3 of them had no idea their was a difference but would get the cheaper if it still looked high def, 3 of them said HD-DVD for that price, and the fourth said he'd get a PS3. Not the biggest pole but none of them are very tech savy and most felt price was the biggest factor as they couldn't really tell between 1080p and 1080i anyways...

i work for bestbuy and we are selling it for $99. It's sold out online, as well as in our store, but I am pretty sure the price will stay that way. her is a section from engadget.com

Wal-Mart may have been the first to tempt HD-fence-sitters with a $100 HD-A2 player (however limited), but it looks like it's not the only one, with Best Buy now also listing the very same player for the impulse buy-inducing price of $99.99. Of course, it's sold out online, so you may be better off trying your luck at your local store. Not surprisingly, the HD DVD PR folk are keen to talk up this recent spat of price reductions, including the still decent $197 price for the A2 at Circuit City and Amazon, and Sears's Black Friday price of $169 for the newer HD-A3 model, which also comes with two movies bundled in the box (not to mention the five free mail-in movies available with the purchase of any of the players).

I dont care which format wins.. I'll buy the movies I like on whatever format they are released... Blu-Ray, in Australia at least, has the unenviable position of having virtually no sub$900 players, whereas the 360 HD-DVD drive sells for $250 and plays on a PC. The other side is that we have a situation where a vast percentage of houses have some form of HDTV either 720P or 1080P and at the moment maybe 1% of TV content is in HD. We are looking for something to show off our fancy HD screens!!! As far as retailers have been concerned with, for the last 12 months the only HD format to exist has been BD, but hampered by etreme costs.. now I am seeing a proliferation of HDDVD material and we are now starting to see the Toshiba HDDVD drives penetrate the market... to be releasing it into an install base that has till now consisted mostly of BD shows that HD-DVD is going very strong and that the format is far from beaten. I stil wouldnt put a lot of hard earned dosh into any format exclusively but the cheap price of the HD-DVD drive was too good to pass up... if a lot of others think like me - then deals like this one from Walmart could make a lot of people do the same... in AUS, thats either the choice of a $700 BD or $250 HDDVD - and lets not forget that Nov 22 in AUS will see HD-DVD exclusive Transformers and I'm sure that that will sell more HD-DVD players than the PS3 sells blu ray discs in the same time.

And get your facts right. Are you saying Sony invented all these things? And look back a bit mate, Sony were behind Betamax, superior but it didn't win the race did it. And how long did they hold onto ATRAC3 Walkmans when everyone, and I mean everyone, was doing MP3 (even Apple who preferred AAC). Sony are loosing it - the media companies are taking over, look at who the stakeholders are and it's HD-DVD, IPTV, DRM & UCR all the way.

movietyme is where i can get all my imports, even some sony titles like Underworld from germany :)

To the people who keep comparing this to the Beta vs VHS scenario and using the phrase "average consumer," first this scenario is completely different. Other than storage available both formats offer the same picture quality, compression, etc. With VHS and Beta, beat VHS in terms of picture quality.

Secondly, I'm not the average consumer but I would buy this because of PRICE and price ALONE. To make a broad generalization that only the "average consumer" cares about price while the "tech savvy" people I guess don't care makes no sense.

Anyhow, I'm about as tech-savvy as they come; BSEE, EIT, .NET developer, Project Manager .... and PRICE is a major selling port for me.

At $99, the player is practically disposable - only a pompous ass would turn their nose up at this due to some sort of superiority complex.

I don't care if they have an 1080P HD drive for $50 or less. I'm not shopping there. I have not shopped there in 4 years, and I do not plan to EVER shop there again.

JR

Cheap TV plus Cheap audio system = not much point getting a HD player.

In order to make a player so cheap they have must have cut back on many things. (eg maybe lower quality digital to analog converters or maybe less steady construction so that the laser cant read the content so well and there has to be more error correction done by the player).

Chances are that the person that gets the cheapest player will also get the cheapest TV and the cheapest sound system. They may not be poor, but they will obviously value their home entertainment system less (maybe in favour of other ways to spend money eg travel, restaurants, car, house, furniture etc...).

The Blueray's greatest strengh is becoming it's Achilles' heel! The PS3 is flatlining, and the standalone players for HD are going to surge this holiday season...bad combo for BD.

yea, piss on Walmart. They are turning America into a buch of trailer trash rednecks. BOYCOT Walmart!! They destroy your city and turn into into low-income trash town.

Not impressed.

I bought it a couple of months ago. I needed an upconverting player and it was worth paying the difference. It is an incredible HD DVD player for the price. On startup it takes about 20 seconds, but I've heard that about most BR and HD players. Don't hate Walmart, hate their customers. Go there when it's 3 a.m. and you can avoid the trash. Their service plans are actually quite impressive. My $900 tv has a 2 year plan that only cost $80, and they wait until the manufacturer's coverage ends to start it.

"Cheap TV plus Cheap audio system = not much point getting a HD player.

In order to make a player so cheap they have must have cut back on many things."

sorry, the video from this player is very good. we are long past a time when video is very hard to deal with. technology moves ahead, intels already got quad cores that idle at 4watts. you think video chipsets aren't shrinking in cost? the thing doesn't have to play games, no harddrive, no gpu. its how you get $30 dvd players ya know.

as for your comment on less steady construction meaning the cd can't read, i'm sorry, you should just stop pretending you have any technical expertise.

anyways the real price is 200 not 99 which is just a 1 day sale. 200 is still a great price though.

as for cost of the movies, yes that needs to drop a bit, but with walmart behind such formats you can bet they are going to drop. especially with such low player prices.

and 1080p/1080i is the same. http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/
marketing is confusing people. confused people are easier to sell to:P look at monster cable.

and who cares about blockbuster. hollywood videos gone bankrupt. blockbuster will start backing whatever format starts coming out on top. blockbuster has a poor record on decision making in the first place so just ignore them. netflix carries hddvd. walmart and cheap hddvd players will lead the way to market penetration.

"Free HD DVD players for everyone. How is this format going to succeed if they can't even sell them for a profit? "

funny, sony just announced their gaming divisions losses doubled. you are assuming they are losing a ton of money at $200(regular price). i doubt it in the long run, they've been working on the players for some time now and so the cost reduction are probably well under way.

and if people don't think walmart is serious about hd. go down to their electronics section. all the flat panels are showing the walmart internet hd network. a shelf row full of hd panels up to 50" all showing hd, and like 3 old crts looking sad at the corner. even consumers who don't know what any of the acronyms mean understand such tech is desirable. add cheap hddvds and cheap hddvd discs and the format is off to a great start. walmart is well known for pressuring prices into the floor.

"Cheap TV plus Cheap audio system = not much point getting a HD player.

In order to make a player so cheap they have must have cut back on many things."

sorry, the video from this player is very good. we are long past a time when video is very hard to deal with. technology moves ahead, intels already got quad cores that idle at 4watts. you think video chipsets aren't shrinking in cost? the thing doesn't have to play games, no harddrive, no gpu. its how you get $30 dvd players ya know.

as for your comment on less steady construction meaning the cd can't read, i'm sorry, you should just stop pretending you have any technical expertise.

anyways the real price is 200 not 99 which is just a 1 day sale. 200 is still a great price though.

as for cost of the movies, yes that needs to drop a bit, but with walmart behind such formats you can bet they are going to drop. especially with such low player prices.

and 1080p/1080i is the same. http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/
marketing is confusing people. confused people are easier to sell to:P look at monster cable.

and who cares about blockbuster. hollywood videos gone bankrupt. blockbuster will start backing whatever format starts coming out on top. blockbuster has a poor record on decision making in the first place so just ignore them. netflix carries hddvd. walmart and cheap hddvd players will lead the way to market penetration.

"Free HD DVD players for everyone. How is this format going to succeed if they can't even sell them for a profit? "

funny, sony just announced their gaming divisions losses doubled. you are assuming they are losing a ton of money at $200(regular price). i doubt it in the long run, they've been working on the players for some time now and so the cost reduction are probably well under way.

and if people don't think walmart is serious about hd. go down to their electronics section. all the flat panels are showing the walmart internet hd network. a shelf row full of hd panels up to 50" all showing hd, and like 3 old crts looking sad at the corner. even consumers who don't know what any of the acronyms mean understand such tech is desirable. add cheap hddvds and cheap hddvd discs and the format is off to a great start. walmart is well known for pressuring prices into the floor.

Sold out in DC by 8:45 AM at the wal-mart in Clinton, MD. $348 lappy also sold out

I got my HD-A2 this morning. $106.xx after taxes. I'm filling out the form to get my 5 free movies too.

I got into a nice discussion with another fellow who was purchasing the HD-A2. He and I shared the same sentiment; for $107, even if the HD DVD format doesn't win out, who cares? This guy also had a Bluray place and he was partly buying the HD-A2 to cover the bases.

I have no idea why people are bashing the poor, because they shop at Walmart. I don't usually shop at Walmart, unless they have something I cannot get from another store. Like it or not this HD DVD deal is a damn good deal. I have two HD TV that only output 1080i and a Samsung that output 1080P. I have my PS3 and Xbox with HDMI hooked up to that TV. I will put my new cheap HD DVD player in the family room on the 1080i TV and that's that...My son can watch Transformers and not piss with my Xbox 360. All I am saying is that...win or lose this is a damn good deal. You get access to HD content at a very low price point. Also, most people accept 720P and 1080i as great HD. If you are an audiophile, then don't buy this particular player. I see no need for bashing someone, because they cannot afford an expensive player.
ok by for now

Was at WallyWorld this morning and was able to get the HD-A2 player. They where making a list of first come first serve customers so you didn't have to wait in line or anything. Just be back at 8am. They had about 10 of the players and I was #9. They also had an Acer laptop that most of the people waiting wanted.

Anyhow, as I read these posts I just have to laugh at all the bashing on both camps. I personally bought this player cause it is a cheap ( by that I mean price ) dvd player that can upconvert. Which by reading several reviews it does very well. Plus, it will play the mini-HD-DVDs from my camcorder.

And as far as the 1080p vs 1080i issue goes, who cares? If you look at the specs of a lot of the widescreen sets being sold today ( sub 46" or so ) the max resolution is ? x 768 which equals 720p.

I have to agree with the statements being made reguarding the "average" consumer. All they see is HDTV and really don't know the diference between 1080p, 1080i, or 720p. How many of these "average" consumers even spend the time to read reviews or research a unit before they buy it? I bet not one of these folks are reading these comments. All they want is a widescreen HDTV and, for the most part, are ignorant of what exactly HD is. Which, by the way, 720p IS part of the HD standard.

Sure it will sell for this one day only because it is cheap. I'm still holding out for a stand-alone device that records, but without stand-alone recording capability, these players BD or HD-DVD, are not much use to me; and no, I'm not going to make an HTPC just to record, so don't suggest PC drives that record.

It really does not matter how many players are selling. It is the software that counts. AFAIK, BD is still outselling HD-DVD 2:1.

IMHO, this format war is more damaging to the consumer than the manufacturers. More device manufacturers should just combine BD and HD-DVD playback in one unit. That would end the format war. Better yet, they should release stand-alone combo devices that record.

In the background, though, is HVD. When that comes out, these devices are going to look archaic. In other words, it won't be long before we are going through this same thing again with HVD.

My $0.02 FWIW

I showed up at Wal-Mart around 7:30 this morning and there wasn't a long line. I was about the 10th person in line. The interesting thing I found was, the Wal-Mart I went to didn't have a restriction on how many you could buy. I walked out with 3 DVD players. Where as the Wal-Mart my husband went to had a restriction of 1 per customer.

Got home with the player and had to go right back to get a cable. They pack a Composite cable with the player! WTF! For the price of the player I guess I can't complain, but seriously an HD player shipped with a composite cable?

i just bought 2 of them from walmart using 2 different credit cards, and they didnt care one bit, so im hopeing i can get 5 free movies on each, if that deal really exists.....

Got there are 7:00am, and I was the 1st person in line. By 8am, all 10 available units were accounted for. They were done ringing them up by 8:15am.

It may have been stupid to wait in the line though. Was it really worth it? Who knows. This format war is pathetic.

This freaking thing is getting sold out like crazy too fast...gotta chase time to the west coast to get one

Five free movies, $98, good upconversion, and the fact that I have a 1080i TV, made this a no brainer. Strolled in to my local Walmart at about 10:00a.m. and picked up one of four left.

I picked two of these up from one of the local Walmart's this morning. No lines, no one scrambling for limited inventory. The Acer laptop was a slow mobile Celeron and for $348 it wasn't worth it (with Vista it just crawls). Tiger Direct has been selling $399 dual-core (Intel) laptops... hold out for those.

But right on the Toshiba box it states, "Made in Japan" and I thought no way! Who really cares about 1080i or 1080p... my TV only does 720p so big deal. For the price of this player its pretty clear who's winning the format war. Sony fumbled on another failed format by pricing the players higher than the competing format. It does not matter which one is better; mass-market means you win.

I just bought 3 at walmart. I was suprised because some other people in line didn't get one. Haha

What a great deal. The Walmart I went to had a good amount of people waiting to grab one. Do not let anyone rain on our parade here. $98 bucks for a HD-DVD player and 5 HD-DVD movies is an absolute steal. 720p is finally just catching up with itself.

So $100 down and $10 a month (to Netflix) will get you watching high-def movies. That's a no brainer for anyone with an HDTV.

" Seems like...
...a last ditch effort from the HD-DVD camp."

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Went to Best Buy and no new units so opted for an open box for $78. Got my coupon for the 5 free plus they have 2 more free HD-DVD that you pick up right then! Hooked it up and it rocks. Best Buy for me.

But it was the last one at that store...

Now I just need an HD TV haha!

why is the blu-ray Vs HDDVD taking this long for a shake out ?? Come on now - give up already !!
VHS Vs DVD - remember ??

I got one. $98.xx plus 3.5% tax. woohoo!

Here in WI, the minimum markup law applies so the store cannot sell it below cost. Dumb law. The cost of this item is $185. Still below the normal "sale" price of $200. Good time to get into high def.

Big Come on I would think. Only had a couple at store in Florida City, Fl

It gets even better. See the link below for the 5 free HD-DVD offer. With an average price $20 to $25 you get the player for free :)

http://thelookandsoundofperfect.com/_pdf/perfect_hd_dvd_offer_redemption_form.pdf

Stores are worried about the current "credit" crisis and are going to be doing Black Friday type deals much earlier this year. The theory is they can get everyone to buy early for the holidays before the credit problems worsen and people are unwilling to spend as much. You'll see other stores offering great deals before Thanksgiving the year too.

w00t!

This is a one day sale. Best buy has been out of stock for a week and I spoke to several Wal-Mart employees that said each Wal-Mart only has 15 to 20 units each, so if you want one you better be there at 8:00am. I'll bet the farm Sony sells far more PS3's today. This is just another article which is trying to give the illusion that there is a war when the reality is the Blu-ray Camp is dug-in and have comment Billions in Blu-ray and will never walk away from that investment, ever. It's like people aren't listening, and don't realise Toshiba have chosen to go it alone. Toshiba and GE are co-developers of HD DVD and GE owns Universal. Paramount went exclusive because they could make 150 million for releasing Transformers and a few others on HD DVD which is a lot of money for not much. Once they fulfil their obligation they will start making Blu-ray disc's again. That time is getting close, maybe 10 months from now when Paramount will begin releasing their titles on Blu-ray. That means nobody came out for HD DVD in the industry except Microsoft which also has a vested interest as they went HD DVD because the Blu-ray camp wouldn’t accept the VC 1 Codec. Intel came out at first foe HD DVD but back tracked once they found out that Toshiba was planning to compete directly with Intel with there new cell processor. As far as Wal-Mart and K-mart are concerned they are clearing out stock of a discontinued A2 which wasn't selling anyway according to Wal-Mart Employees. Both K-Mart and Wal-Mart sell the new 40GB PS3 and will continue to do so as it is by far the best selling HD player on the market. It is also the best value as it has all the features including 1080p/24/60, HDMI ver. 1.3b and it’s a WIFI enabled game player to boot. I think it goes without saying and let me be clear, there is absolutely no way HD DVD is going to make it as it is alone and nobody is going to risk the billions necessary to keep it going when there’re up against the entire industry. Businesses don’t take risks; they will try to pick out the winner in the first place. Panasonic for instance is Matsushita Electric which makes 80% of all the consumer electronics in the world is committed to Blu-ray alone with 160 other manufactures and retailers. Don’t you think 160 to 3 is a losing battle for HD DVD? Blu-ray has been out selling HD DVD 2 to 1 in North America and 4 to 1 in Europe and thanks to the PS3 has a consumer base of approximately 7 million units world wide which is expected to grow to 11 million by March 2008 compared to Toshiba’s 170 thousand standalone players and 180 thousand Xbox players with the HD DVD drive add-on which by the way has been selling at or below the $150.00 dollar mark for the last 6 months and it’s simply not selling. Don’t forget Sony has sold 100 million PS2’s which will eventually change up to a PS3 as it has garnered a lot of brand loyalty over the years. If you were watching the World Series on Monday you would have seen Wal-Mart in a Blu-ray commercial with Target. Do you no what it cost for a commercial during the World Series. Who invests that kind of money when you’re planning on walking away from the product let alone being in the commercial promoting it? Warner Brothers VP said earlier this week that they are currently evaluating going Blu-ray exclusive. One more thing, Blu-ray is also the superior format which is really where all the support came from to begin with.

I got to my WalMart at 8:05, picked up the last one from the shelf ( there were customers behind me asking for more) and bought it. I own a 65" Sharp DLP and I am sure it will look great. I had just a DVD player that is starting to die so this is a no brainer for me. From this point on I will use NetFlix for my movies or whoever offers HD DVD. I never got caught up in the Blue ray or HD DVD war but after buying this player for $98.00 and I get 5 free movies I guess I have taken sides now.

Don't know if it was so secret that it only rang up at the register...But the walmart near my workplace didn't have ANY signs up about the sale, the price near the A2's was $198 AND the sales clerks in Electronics didn't have any idea about this sale..(they also gave me a look like they thought I was trying to pull a fast one on them)... So..Maybe it's at participating Wal-marks...

Stopped this afternoon around 1:00 and there were still a few left. The player is practically free, since you can get 5 free hd-dvds with it.

Although it’s an amazing technology capable of holding 3.9 TB on a single layer disc, the technology is way too expensive and requires a lot of investment and development before it came come to market. HVD is truly state of the art but right Governments wouldn't even spent that kind of money on storage media with Blu-ray so much cheaper. 50 million dollars for a player is just too much money for anyone. The 1 watt laser required for HVD is also illegal for anyone outside the military to have. 20 to 25 years is way to long for me to wait. I’ll be more worried about chewing my food by then.

well here in portland the local walmart decided to sell them at 7 instead of 8 so i missed out by 2 people. all the other walmarts in town sold them at 8 but it was too late to get there in time. now im writing a complaint to them.

12:30ish on my lunch and BAM I am a proud owner!

I have a feeling this BIG holiday strike against Blueray should make good 'ol moneybags (Sony) crying more than they are currently. Nearly everyone shops at Wal-mart and obviously the vast majority of shoppers like a bargain. Given that Sony has a hard time parting with money, HD-DVD's price point with equivalent performance, we should see a fair change in this "war". Not to mention you can buy HD-DVD disks now and use them on your regular DVD player for those who are not ready to upgrade their player.

Seriously, why pay a higher price for something that (at least, currently) does the exact same thing? Plays a movie in HD.

Though if you want more of my opinion, Blue-ray may have an advantage for storage... but some recent technologies are even making that look like the Zipdrive of today.

CIRCUIT CITY WEBSITE SHOWS THEM AT 129.99

For the record there seems to be 2 Pauls on this board.

I did not post the 1080i vs p message, but I don't think you have it right Peter.

1080P should have 60 frames per second (actually its 59.96) of 1080 lines. Full progressive.

1080i is 60 fields per second for 30 (29.98) frames per second. Every other line is seen ~60x second. So there is a difference. Progressive shows sequences with fast motion clearer since it technically runs at twice the speed.

However, most HDTVs that support 1080i actual run at 720P, so they have internal hardware (and software) that scales everything down to 720 lines and de-interlaces using one of several popular methods. (BTW they will also scale 480p from DVDs up to 720P, but usually not as good as an upscaling DVD player or native 720p)

A 1080p HDTV would take the 1080i input and then just de-interlace it. The quality would depend on the de-interlacing method used.

That said, since most people don't even realize that their HDTV is showing 720p rather than 1080i, I would say even less would see a difference between 1080i and 1080p unless you had a 60" HDTV and were watching a football game.

But the $99 HD-DVD player is aimed at the mass market of people buying 32" LCDs not 70" SXRD systems.

There's a big market out there. I bet a lot of people will buy the HD-DVD player because it's a good price and they might get an HDTV in a couple of years. Most people don't think like we do. Most people don't think like Sony.

And btw, for whoever claimed it the DVD was pioneered by Philips and Sony as was the CD. So they don't count as a Sony successes. Philips seems to be sitting this one out.

They were sold out at both of the Wal-Mart stores I went to but they had a few at Best Buy and they're doing the same sub $100 price there as well. I already have an HD-DVD player so I'm going to claim the movies and sell the player on Craig's List or give it to someone for Christmas.

Kind of the same sentiment I saw earlier, I got one this morning. At $100 and the 5 free movies it seemed a better move than to replace my currently malfunctioning DVD player with this than the $20 cheapo DVD. I am curious how the format war will end, but the cheapest blu-ray player (stand alone) I could find was $450. Since I can now get a PS3 for $400 there's no point to go with a stand-alone blu-ray. With a $300 price difference, I can buy a lot of movies.

All of the good games are on the Wii and Xbox 360. Xbox 360 has an attachable HD-DVD drive. Wal-mart is selling the A2 for only 98 bucks!?? Game over blu-ray - 400 to 600 quid to play games and blu-ray? Please! Even if HD-DVD loses - downloadable content will be avaliable by the time this war ends - Sony loses - Microsoft and the consumer wins!

Warner has been confirmed as saying it is thinking about repositioning its self on the format war. Then goes on to say that they are interested to see how HD-DVD sells this next couple of months with the new price cuts. It looks to me that Warner is saying if HD-DVD sales go through the roof during X-mass it may deal a damaging blow to the other format by going exclusive. All these things were state in the same statement after discrediting the article that mis-quoted them as "committed to Blu Ray for the future".

Warner has yet to renew their membership with the BDA as of oct,31st this more than anything says they are really doing the wait and see for who wins out this holiday.

This is a good price for an incredible piece of equipment that produces a very high fidelity image. At my work, we do perceptual research on image quality and have a wide variety of hardware players as well as Home Theater PCs connected to a variety of projectors and display devices. We have yet to find any HD-DVD or BluRay player (hardware and/or software PC), including this one that does not offer a very high quality image if the video was encoded well and it is connected to a good video scaler & projector.
At home I have a Home Theater PC with both an HD-DVD & a BluRay drive. It is very liberating to be able to play both types of HD formats without getting caught in the infantile “BluRay/HD-DVD is better.” The fact is that both produce an amazing looking image when paired with a good projector & screen. This player is no exception. At 98.00 tax it is a steal.

What title says.

HDMI is simply binds sounds as well. Less wires running about.

But when evaluating final picture quality differences are pretty negligable AKA you really didn't need to go get the HDMI cable.

Yes, I showed up at my local Walmart this morning at 8AM sharp. Found a dozen other people looking for new Toshiba HD players too. But no players. Clerk said they did have some earlier but they sold out. Hmmm. Didn't this sale start at 8AM? I'm in Seattle. Maybe they meant 8AM Kabul Afghanistan time, I don't know. This is just typical of big retailers now. Big ad's and no stock. I expect a pile of these things by the front door! Not 3 units that got sold to employees friends at 3AM (if that's what happened). WALMART SUCKS! DON'T SHOP THERE!

BESIDES the fact that there is a VHS-BETA redux battle.

THE biggest drawback is the fact that there is hardly any Blu-ray or HD content out there, as well as most of it is FAR more espensive than the standard DVD format! Besides, who wants to re-purchase their entire collections?

The death knell of Blu-Ray/HD DVDs is upon us.
The anemic rollout of both formats has already been doomed for the reasons above.

He who is selling the lowest priced players wins.

VCR won over beta because the players were cheaper. It didn't matter two bits that beta was better. The largest number of people will always go for the cheaper one no matter what.

It also makes absolutely no difference that this player is only 1080i. The majority of consumers are clueless and it really doesn't make a difference unless you have a really large (>50") tv.

I was in line this morning and there were 20 people or so. They had no more than 30 players. But then there is a walmart every 5 miles round here. So they sold tens of thousands of these things.

I'd like one of them to win but that won't be for a while. So I bought this player for hd. I plan on purchasing a PS3 when the price drops for Christmas to cover the blueray side.

May the best man win. I'm betting on HD DVD myself. BRD players are still too high.

Steve

So i arrived at the local walmart when the store opened.... $185 for the player and a BS story that state law forbids anyone to sell a product under cost. FU walmart, if this isnt a gross case of false advertisement, I dont know what is. Maybe check the law before printing a sales flyer.

The things got SOLD-OUT at most BB and Walmarts! Crap, but that shows the level of interest in HD in general, and HD-DVD. If the format was as dying, as some BD boys (gals) would have you believe, you'd think we'd be able to pick them up with no prob. I'm pretty sure Toshiba is going to push another sales event for Black Friday, and while it won't be $100 clearance event, it might be a more capable system for $199.

Ron Paul just bought one and he loves it.

Thanks Walmart!

So I boought the player from Walmart. Yes, it had 1080i max output. I ran it on a Westinghouse LVM 37W3 1080p monitor. I compared the picture to my blu-ray(PC-WINDVD8,Geforce8800DVI running on same monitor) and honestly, the picture is better on the HD-DVD. This is probably because WINDVD isn't optimized for Blu-ray but it's VERY good. I can personally attest (transformers HD-DVD) that the quality on a 1080i player is virtually indistinguishable, and no, you don't see jagged edges. Also, the colors were noticeably sharper and cleaner. I noticed none! not even in fast moving action scenes. BTW, the sound quality on analog stereo output was phenomenal. Completely floored my Audigy 2ZS mainly for pure unadulterated dynamic range.

For $199 I got a Toshiba A30 (1080P) and even though my tv only supports 1080i max it looks incredible! My deal was $199 for a HD-A30 with 9 movies (two in the box - 300 and Bourne Identity) and two additional (Transformers and Superman Returns - my choices), and 5 free in the mail. I don't know how Blue-Ray will counter this deal. I think Toshiba played their hand right and this will be the year of HD-DVD adoption en masse. I have a PS3 as well but I frankly cannot see the difference on my TV between HD-DVD and Blue-Ray.

Thanks for the insight on the topic but I'm sold on HD-DVD!

I have to agree with those who hold a less-than-positive opinion of Walmart. It is truly the worst retailer there is and I would rather give my money to charity than to buy something from them.

This evening I went to Best Buy and discovered that they have the HD-A3, which is a pretty decent step up from the HD-A2 player for $199.99, with two movies in-the-box ("300" and "Bourne Identity"), plus Best Buy gives you any two HD-DVD movies up to $34.99 each at the time of purchase, plus Toshiba gives you five movies from their limited selection, for a total of 9 free movies. And they had a nice stack of players right on the floor, so I walked out with one and am very pleased with it.

Take that Sony!!!

Guess there are no plans to sell a HD DVD player at this price in Europe, which kinda sux. This HD craze will be delayed for a couple of years here, I assume. High prices mean definitely a no-go for me.

I've read a lot of articles here that say things like 1080i is just as good as 1080p, and HDMI is the same as component cable in picture quality. I don't know if you guy's have eye trouble or really cheap and crapy TV's but if you got a good TV Like Sharp, Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, Panasonic, Hitachi, RCA, and Philips, you should see enough of a difference that you’ll find the picture clearer, with more detail in focus, more natural looking colours, better contrast, rich blacks, and very importantly a more film like quality when the camera pans from right to left and in fast moving action. Convergence will also not be a problem, and de-interlacing works far better when using a HDMI cable. It’s one thing if you don't really care and maybe you don't no what to look for when comparing quality motion pictures, but to make blanket statements that are completely incorrect is another. If you need help seeing what the differences are don't go to a big box store and ask the minimum wage sales rep who is merely an order taker. Go to an expensive High End audio video store that sell the top of the line TV's that the big box stores aren’t allowed to sell, like the Sharp LC46D92U series. The picture will only be as good as the weakest link. Many people will go out and buy this cheap Toshiba A2 and expect it to look as good as Toshiba's top of the line 1080p model, or they buy the top of the line model thinking they'll get a better picture than the entry level model on a low quality TV. I've seen people with a lot of money buy all the best gear money can buy and then buy cheap cables to put it together or don't bother with a good power line conditioner and I don't mean the crapy Monster gear sold at the big box stores. I mean the one's like PS audio sells. These are all small differences by themselves, but when there all put together, they give you one big difference. Of course most people cannot afford this type of quality as they definitely don’t give it away cheap. But the more you know about how all of this stuff works the better job you’ll do when comes time to decide what to buy and how it should go together. There is a point where you’re paying for the nice cabinet, but not usually with TVs. Remember when you’re buying a TV these days they’re designed to last a vary long time, so buy the biggest, best quality TV you can afford as it will pay off in the end I guarantee it. Think of the TV as the central hub of your home as it will soon if not already display the internet, communications, TV, movies, video games, e-mail, and many more. A 5000.00 LCD TV will cost you 250 dollars a year over its life span provided you keep it for its entire life of about 20 years, or $500.00 a year or $40 a month if you keep it for 10 years.

Rafael Morales, until you have to replace all your movies you bought in HD DVD for Blu-ray once the HD DVD format goes down. I no a lot of peopel are convinced that the loe price is going to save HD DVD but it's been pretty cheap from the get go and has been a complete steal for the past 8 months and it's not moving. The industry suport just isn't their. Why do you think nobodey wants to make HD DVD players. It's because at these prices you can't make any money. This has to be a sell off before the end of the format life. Wal-Mart asuredly lost money here so why would they want to continue to lose money.

•DVD is the work of many companies and many people. DVD evolved from CD and related technologies. Some of the early proposals for "high-density CD" were made in 1993, and these efforts gradually coalesced into two competing proposed formats. The MMCD format was backed by Sony, Philips, and others. The SD format was backed by Toshiba, Matsushita, Time Warner, and others. A group of computer companies led by IBM insisted that the factions agree on a single standard. The combined DVD format was announced in September of 1995, avoiding a confusing and costly repeat of the VHS vs. Betamax videotape battle or the quadraphonic sound battle of the 1970s.
No single company "owns" DVD. The official specification was developed by a consortium of ten companies: Hitachi, JVC, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, Philips, Pioneer, Sony, Thomson, Time Warner, and Toshiba. Representatives from many other companies also contributed in various working groups. In May 1997, the DVD Consortium was replaced by the DVD Forum , which is open to all companies, and as of February 2000 had over 220 members. Time Warner originally trademarked the DVD logo, and has since assigned it to the DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation (DVD FLLC). The written term "DVD" is too common to be trademarked or owned. See section 6.2 and visit Robert's DVD Info page for links to Web sites of companies working with DVD

Since Manufacturers insist that it is our job as the consumer to decide between HD DVD and Blu-ray, We best get on with it decisively. The good news is that to me it makes very little difference which format is selected. Either has its own cost of entry to me and each has an advantage here or there. And, they are both getting cheaper. When I (the consumer) make a decision the big commodity makers will produce it at a fraction of what either sells for now. So, I cannot find "cost" as a reason to choose one over the other. Nor can I find picture quality the differentiating reason to choose one over the other (and I have a 104 inch wide screen and great front projector that shows everything). Fancy features never have impressed me and I see by various surveys that I am not alone. Yes, of course, I do like some features, but I don't see why one format should outdo the other in features unless it has something to do with capacity.
So, if it's neither picture quality nor features, then my format decision has to be based on something else. I had heard that the higher cost of professional entry for the Blu-ray pressing plants was a clear-enough reason to choose HD DTV. You can modify existing DVD plants to press HD DVDs. So, I went to Spokane, Washington this weekend to see the newly formed Blu-ray Technologies LLC Company. They are a private firm with IPO ambitions whose principals have been big in standard DVDs for years and they have just invested in three Blu-ray disk making and pressing machines. They also have several HD-DVD pressing machines. They laugh heartily and long at the notion of cost being a barrier or any cause at the pressing plant level for dismissing the Blu-ray. They have invested millions with this confidence in the format. The one Blu-ray machine I saw working as forming and stamping out 18,000 finished BD copies per day with a 16,000 copy good yield. It took minimal human attention to create this massive stack of $1.50 to $2.00 each disk. The defects were caused, said the plant manager, James Schumacher, from impurities in the raw materials and are not an inherent flaw in the machinery or its design. He explained that these raw materials are not yet purchased in large enough quantities to be refined and commoditized. The Spokane Company is prepared to convert their HD DVD making equipment to standard DVDs once Blu-ray is a clear consumer choice, or as orders dictate.

So, based on the little I do know, I (the consumer) make Blu-ray the high-definition format of choice! Now, please don't throw any sharp objects at me or denounce me as a heretic Satanist. In the end capacity and headroom for future growth within a still-immature format is what won me over ... just as it did with HDTV (when an extension of NTSC in the form of EDTV was under consideration). Let's end the needless controversy and get on with serving the public with a tight focus on one outstanding format. If you don't like my choice, take away my option to choose. Return that responsibility to the professional ranks where it has always belonged and stop asking unqualified people to do your work. Or, take this decision, unqualified as it may be, and run with it.

Same thing happened to me, I showed up at 7:30 and they were already gone. I assumed that since they didn't go on sale supposedly till 8:00 that I'd be fine. I sent a letter to Wally World, not sure if it will do any good but I figured I'd at least complain to somebody.

http://www.inphase-technologie....asp?tnn=4

I happened to be in Walmart on Friday, and I looked for the player - not with the intent of buying one. I did not find one, though I was there late in the day. When I saw the HD-A3 sitting on the shelf for $288 it became quite clear that they were dumping the HD-A2 and that is the only reason they were $100.

I got to walmart at like 8:05 looked around there electronics department for like five minutes couldn't find the players so asked an employee their whereabouts. found out they were in the back in the layaway section. got back there and they hadn't started handing them out yet. was like maybe fifteen people in line. most bought player and laptop. I just bought the player and one hd-dvd that was on sale. after going through the line there were still some players left. pretty sweet deal now I just need a tv to use it with...

Black friday sale was limited to stock on hand.... I don't know how many of you have tried to goto one of these but the lines start hours before 4 am....and they only have so many units.....good luck coming out with one.

I had a family member go grab one since they were in the area, and it was no big deal. We watched the Transformers HD DVD today, and the picture was pretty nice. On the other hand, it's nothing overwhelmingly amazing, and neither have been any of the Blu Ray movies I've watched. Maybe the shiny lights and bright colors just don't do that much for me? [the tiny bit of extra visual stimulation is gone within the first 10 minutes of a film, for me] I'm not sure if I care which format 'wins,' but I'm sure to begin rooting for whoever keeps my wallet in mind. It's definitely not worth paying anymore than I do for a regular DVD, and I'm glad that the Toshiba plays those as well. Another quality player to have hanging around that was purchased at a fair price.

trinitron is a sony product brand, not a format. vcr is a again a product. sony made a betamax vcr while jvc madea vhs vcr. obviously the vhs format won. walkman is also a product brand. dvd is actually a hybrid of a sony idea and toshiba idea. so both sides really won. same thing happened with philips in making the cd. but do you see that sa-cd never took off. stabbing westward :darkest days was one of those rare cds and i have one. good thing i never bought the expensive hardware needed to get the most out of it.
formats - without help sony help in getting them out.
brands - sony has some it still uses (trinitron is out) but a brand does not make a format.

Got mine at 9:10am in Orlando. Works great upconverts very well. Picked up HD Serenity what beautiful shots in this movie.

I agree, however that won't be the case forever. In a few more years once the movie studios decide to enforce that Image Contraint Token for future High Def releases, HDMi will be the only way to go. That should be several more years down the road though, the HD-DVD / Bluray format war should be decided by then (I hope).

...what will they fill this newly emptied space with?

Went to one of the local WalMarts in Poteau, OK on Saturday night. They had 10 of them just sitting on the shelf and lo and behold all of them had a sticker on them "HDMI Cable Included". This was the HD-A2C model, I guess the C is for the cable. And yes the HDMI cable was in it. Yeah!

I went early this Saturday in hopes of purchasing one of these units. I understand since I live in Orange County, CA. That I may not have had a chance. Sure enough Saturday came and thes ales man told me they were gone. Yeah he told me they sold them as soon as they came in on Friday with most purchases to the employees that night. Thanks WalMArt I will stick with my Mediagate MG35!.
And let HD settle down.
Figures
I originally Chose Beta HiFI over VHS at $988.00

I purchased 2 last night in Oklahoma City. They had 7 of the A2C units with the HDMI cable. I bought one for myself and one for my friend that was looking for one. They also had around 10 movies for $15 a piece so I picked up The Last Samurai and Unforgiven.

300 and Bourne Identity in the box, 3 free that you get to pick(exludes box set and TV series), and the 5 free through mail. I think this is a good deal for those of us that missed the HD-a2. Make sure to read the details because the title says 8 free HD-dvds.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?type=category&id=pcmcat135100050035

I paid a lot more for my PS3 any one who bought a HD DVD player, but it was worth every penny and I wouldn't trade it for a tailer load of those cheap Toshiba HD DVD players. HD DVD will never be in my house! Ever!

I wouldn't pay more than $98.00 for a HD DVD player either. $98.00 for a HD DVD player and 9 movies is a good price.

I find it so funny that the biggest thing killing HD DVD is the fact that nobody is willing to pay for it. $98.00 and 9 free movies is a death sentance but I heard a lot of people claim that with a price like that Toshiba will kill Blu-ray, however this couldn't be farther than the truth as at $98.00 they represent a complete loss as none of these people are going to buy movies either as 3 movies cost as much as the player. With no money to be made nobody with manufacture the players or the movies. The biggest mistake a busness can make is going to war on price as vary quickly the profit margins disapear altogether and everyone leaves the market. My guess is there is no hope for HD DVD unless people are willing to pay between $400 and $500 a unit for the entry level player. Funny thing is as soon as these same people who think $98.00 is a far price to pay for a player have to pay $500.00 they get a lot more fusy and take a much harder look at what they are buy with much higher expectations on quality, reliability, Capasity, performance, and security in how long with there investment in the new techology last. Not releally something you care to much about when you spending $98.00 dollars. That being said, I want to congrdulate Toshiba on a fantastice job of getting people to except a free HD DVD player. If you can keep it up for say the next 3 years I bet you can win this format war. Sony, isn't making much money either, but there customers have shown that there will to purchase the product at a price point Sony and the 170 other manufacturers will able to make a good profit from once they get the enical start up costs covered and Manufacturing costs come down once the sales valum goes up. When the price comes down as the cost comes down that's healthly. When you have to take huge losses far below cost to sell a product that's been on the market for 2 and a half years during which you only managed to sell not much more then 180 thousand Units. It's time to exit the market and cut your loses. It's a good thing those $98 HD DVD players play DVD's.

This whole BD is outselling HD-DVD argument holds no water. There is NO CONTENT for either. Compared to DVD, the number of movies that are available and being sold is NIL!

At this early stage, the content war is just chest beating. Price is king. Price, not recording length won it for VHS, recording length was just a bonus. I know I was there and had several friend bragging about their great Betamax set.

The content follows the boxes and Sony is doing a great job, so far, convincing the industry that each PS3 sold should count as a BD player. But the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Here's the problem that Sony has IMHO:

In order to continue the popularity of PS3 beyond the usual launch hooplah, they need games. How many PS3 owners actually bought it just to watch movies? NONE (be honest!). They want games. The more games you have, the less interest in watching movies. Therefore, in the long run PS3 owners will buy few movies.

Walmart shoppers (I shop there from time to time) are going to be buying cheap, low quality HD-DVD players in droves (as things are usually bought a Walmart) and then they will get their HD movies, first through NetFlix or the local video rental outlet (not Blockbuster), then they'll start buying when one of the studios decides to have a "Fire Sale" on an HD-DVD title (probably an animated movie for the kids that will look exceptionally crisp). The industry will see how well a $20 HD-DVD sells and everyone will jump in. You'll have the 2 for $15 box at Walmart filled with HD-DVD titles from the 70s within 3 years, if it takes that long.

It cost the same amount to make an HD-DVD or BD as a DVD in the long run. If cheap HD-DVD means not having to double up on DVD and an HD format, then the economics are so much the better.

"When you have to take huge losses far below cost to sell a product that's been on the market for 2 and a half years during which you only managed to sell not much more then 180 thousand Units."

It's not a big fire sale and they aren't taking a huge loss.

Some of you are too funny.

First of all the free movies are distributed on basically the old tech dvd's.

The thing you should read into this is that the blue ray and hd-dvd components are extremely cheap when mass produced.

I mean do you really think sony dropping the PS3 by 100 puts a dent in their pocket? Did you really think you was getting 600 plus of tech when you add up the components? come on

I remember people were in awe when satellite receivers dropped to free. People who paid 299 and up was thinking "OMG I can't believe it, cable must be crushing them into submission. These receivers are now free!"

But we now know it's only a few dollars to make, tops.

99 dollars isn't a fire sale, but paying 500, 600 and up for blu ray is a PURE rip off.

It really cost no more than a dollar each to print up those "free" movies.

"Sony, isn't making much money either, but there customers have shown that there will to purchase the product at a price point Sony and the 170 other manufacturers will able to make a good profit"

Ummmm *** NEWS FLASH ***

They aren't just making a "good profit" they are making a killing. It's not a good price point, its too pricey still, get a grip dude...

Hell, HDMI cable use to be over 100 dollars...

I guess they're doing a fire sale and taking a huge loss on those $7 HDMI cables eh????

Yeah, why don't you contact one of those companies and ask how they are staying in business by continuing to take a 800% plus loss on their cables.

You'd be laughed off the phone...

Isn't that one 1080 p.

I have read conflicting statements on that player.

I heard that it's basically an A30 with the A2 look.

Can any of you confirm this?

Maybe next year, as manufacturing costs drop, Toshiba could eliminate their regular upconverting DVD players and just market the AX as an ~$200 upconverting DVD player that HAPPENS to play HD-DVD. That would reduce confusion, raise awareness and redundant product offerings.

BTW, the XBOX HD-DVD is essentially just an HD-DVD drive and goes for $150-$200. The A3 is a complete, standalone player and goes for...$200. *Ahem* Maybe it's time for M$ to drop the price (on the HDD's as well).

I was surprised by the Walmart turnout Friday morning -- They only had 10 units but could have sold much more. Thirty laptops were available. I assumed that most people don't know about HD movies. (They buy an HDTV, and then assume everything they watch on it will be in HD.) That may be true, but tens of thousands must be aware of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray and just not want to pay. LOL.

Riiiiight. Like Cheap DVD players killed DVD? Oh right, it didn't.

Wal Mart and Toshiba messed up only slightly on this one. They should have had a LOT more units available to purchase. By early morning most stores were sold out. That's bad. If they'd had twice the units, this would have made a HUGH dent in the "format war". Which IMHO is over and HD-DVD won. Sony's never going to win a format war, ever.

how does entering the market at a low price stop sales?
this is a working business model. ever bought a printer? they give them away to sell ink. if they can sell you a $25-$30 HD version of what otherwise is a $10-$15 DVD that is a win at no real extra cost to the studio (and we all know that is the case). people will have their players for years buying movies for that time.
Also Tom work on the spelling exceptaccept. typos and an inability to spell are very different creatures.

What killed the Betamax? Cost!
It was a better format, better resolution, and a better product...But!
Has Sony done it again?
Even if Sony sells millions of PS3s for Christmas, can they beat the less than $100.00 mark or even the $200.00 price tag Toshiba is selling for?

The problem lies in the fact that the sold HD DVD players are not traslating into winning sales numbers of HD DVD movies over Blu-ray Movies. Movie sales is what's going to win this war not cheap players being sold at a unsustanable price. The Manufacturers of the players don't make money from the movies unlike printer manufacturers who make propiitary Ink. The studio's make the money from the movies, and most arn't owned by the Manufacturers. Bottom line, Blu-ray is out selling HD DVD in players and movie sales by a huge margin, so the writing on the wall, however I can tell your going to chose to see what you want to see.

im glad to see you made a good point.

So who cares about a bunch of extra space. I'd rather not have to fork over more money for publishers to pay the $3 a disc compared to the $.13 a disc. Sony is known for trying to tell you what, how and when to watch, no thanks.

watch out for sony. they will drop you if they think their movies on w/e format arent selling good. where is spider-man 3 on umd?

The funny thing about alot of the posts is how 1080p is better then 1080i or the sound quality is good or bad. The player has HDMI and digital audio outputs. So since the movie disk is digital and the outputs are digital then the only thing that can mess up the signal is your TV / Amp. As far as P vs I the movie is filmed at 24 FPS so that is the max the machine has to output. So if your P machine outputs 24 "full" frames or my machine outputs 48 "half" frames the TV still gets all 24 frames of full data. The i came about because when HD was first drafted CRT televisions were still quite common. And for large screen tv's to prevent image decay you paint half the image then the other half. With the LCD and other newer screens the information is placed in a buffer then output all at once. So everyone who thinks they need the hype of a 1080P player should know they are wasting money on a marketing scam that had some relevance in the old analog days but makes no difference in the modern digital age. I bought one of the A2's and it looks great. My old widescreen DVD's no longer have the black bars on the top and bottom, and since my tv has HDMI and amp has digital audio input there is no issue with analog degraded signals. You really can not mess up a digital to digital transmission.

That's what kills me most about this particular format war. Blu-Ray is NOT the best format. HD-DVD is technically much better in terms of ability and standards. You can do so much more with HD-DVD than you can with Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray's only plus, in larger size, is negated by poor physical design that will demise the discs much faster than other formats. HD-DVD is the better choice in all other areas, which are quite a few: 1. cost, 2. capabilities, 3. web enabled, 4. flexibility with older formats, 5. better standards, 6 oh yeah, and cost. Blu-Ray is just stupid and a poor attempt at Sony to get key market control once again (and fail too)

How many Blu-Ray fans really looked at the big picture? (pun not intended...)

How many pluses does Blu-Ray have over HD DVD? Only one, where HD DVD has many over Blu-Ray. So why is there even a war or argument? Sony advertising, that's why. (i.e. brain washing...)

I pity the BR fan.

Where?

Narg, Hey stupid, what can you do on HD DVD that you can't on Blu-ray? Go ahead and show us just how stupid you really are.

HD-DVD is cheaper to manufacture. Converting a line over from DVD is less than 1/10 the cost of BD and the line can still be used for DVD production.

HD-DVD has deeper pits so it will be affected by scratches, dirt, spilled milk, etc less than BD. Also manufacturing is more robust so there are fewer "coasters."

Even the big BD backers are releasing their movies in HD-DVD format outside the US -- even Sony does this. They then count these sales as BD sales. That's why the ratio is 4:1 in Europe. When consumers have the choice I bet it's more like 50:50. Once PS3 has some decent games, owners won't be buying any more BD movies and the ratio will change significantly.

BD hold a bit more data, but not enough more to really make a difference. Once you get to 50GB, you might as well use HDD for backup. It doesn't hold more movie, so that's a moot point here.

HD-DVD players are cheaper to make and converting production from DVD players is quicker and cheaper.

Personally I don't care who wins as long as I have a player for

in the Blue-ray fanboy force.

Both camps may be counting the free pack-in/mail-in/off-the-shelf discs as sales. There's really now choice but to match or beat each others offers.

So if somebody buys a PS3 there's a pack-in (that's 1 guaranteed sale) plus the option for 5 free movies (5 more potential sales). The PS3 is selling better than either standalone player at the moment (except maybe last Friday).

I suppose I have been hoping Blu-Ray wins, but it doesn't look promising.

Seems like if it's
- Good enough
- Cheap enough
- Availabe with lots of mainstream content

It, (HD DVD), will win the day, and win over the content providers; unless someone, say Sony, comes up with a $199 dual format player. That could put off the format decision until we get a chance to see who does the most, with each format. Then gradually the dual format players would drop the less productive format in exchange for some newer format that lies just over the horizon.

This is not unlike the history of the CD's evolution, with most players playing a variety of formats