Urbana (IL) - Eric Traut, a distinguished Microsoft engineer, was on hand last week to give a preview of upcoming virtualization techniques, hypervisors and the like.  However, one of the more interesting aspects of the presentation was a short segment on Windows 7, the next generation of Windows (after Vista).  The demo showed a slimmed down core operating system without graphics, one using only 33 MB of memory.


MinWin is an internal name Microsoft is using to describe this tiny kernel.  One of Traut's goals in the presentation was to demonstrate that the bloat commonly associated with Windows, and rightly so, according to Traut, is not necessary.  Windows can function with a much smaller kernel, and function well.

The presentation install of MinWin contained approximately 100 files and was running a simple HTTP server inside a Virtual PC instance.  Traut said, "compare that to the normal 5,000".  The host OS, which was Microsoft Vista, was able to use Internet Explorer to communicate with the MinWin server.  The main page had three links on it and from there Traut could get a file listing, show running processes, and give a summary of how much memory was being used.  All told the machine was given 40 MB of memory as a Virtual PC setting, and it had 7 MB free after booting up and hosting the web server.



Perhaps one of the more interesting comments was that Traut said, "It's not as small as I'd like to see it yet," implying that it could be made smaller.  In fact, he indicated that a core operating system very similar to this MinWin version, which is currently only used internally within Microsoft, is at the heart of Windows Media Center, server operating systems, even mobile products.

Traut did point out that the minimal OS as it sits is not suitable for running real applications.  It was able to run the special HTTP server, but nothing else as it does not have standard libraries and the other software foundations which give Microsoft's operating systems their power and flexibility.  Traut did say, however, that a 1.5 GB version of a server OS which usese this same core was available.  And while not quite as impressive as the 33 MB bootup, the reality is with that version any kind of dynamic content could be hosted.



Sporadic reports of minimal Windows XP installs have been seen on popular sites like Digg.com over the years.  Some of those have dipped down into the teen-megabyte range.  These are the reverse of slipstream installs, which take the original Windows install and add service pack updates to create a new install disc of the same OS version, but with the service pack updates immediately applied when installed from the CD.  In the case of these minimal installs, unnecessary files are stripped away wherever possible, not just replaced.  The enthusiasts engaging in these kinds of minimal XP installs were able to determine that for a particular kind of base usability, only certain files are required.  This may very well be what Traut is showing us here, albeit in a more official capacity as this MinWin version comes directly from Microsoft and is used by them.

Booting a Windows based operating system into 33 MB of RAM is a significant feat.  Just now I checked my Windows XP instance running in VMware Server and two separate instances of iexplorer.exe alone were each consuming over 55 MB.  Several other network service files were consuming over 10 MB each.  All told, my VMware install of Windows XP was using 220 MB of memory.  A considerably larger amount than MinWin.

Traut said the MinWin core is tight, efficient, solid and a version of it is being used in Windows Server 2008.  Windows 7 is the internal codename for the next version of Windows after Vista, which was the 6th iteration of Windows.  In the brief video presentation, Traut gives a demonstration of what previous versions of Windows looked like, all the way back to Windows 1.0, which could not even recognize a mouse or arrow keys.

Windows 7 will not be the final name for any products based on this MinWin core.  Traut was very specific that the purpose of the demonstration was to show that the core of Windows is very small.  Much smaller than the drivers and other software layers which operate above the base kernel.  Who would've thought a modern Windows kernel core could boot up and run a small HTTP server in 33 MB?

Sounds cool but...

Oct 19, 2007 11:28     

It's M$ so by the time there done it will need 1 GB of memory just to boot. I had hoped a long time ago that someone would make a functional OS that is just an OS but no one does. They add all there little BS junk that I have no interest in and just blot and slow down the OS. Linux people. I don't consider a command line prompt with vi, and ls a functional os. Server OS yes, functional desktop os that's not like dos NO.

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not that impressed

Oct 19, 2007 11:39     

There are small Linux distros at around 50-60 MB ( OK , compressed but still ) that even have a GUI and functional programs and let's not forget wireless routers having an included http server and running Linux from only a 2-4 MB flash memory and using 8-16 MB of RAM. Sure , for Windows it's pretty good but this is a very stripped down and pretty much useless 33 MB kernel. But anyway if they make the next version of Windows less resource hungry then .... who will buy new PCs and what will drive hardware sales ? Keep it bloated folks, the PC industry needs you to thrive :).

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It has been a while...

Oct 19, 2007 11:58     

But something Microsoft did actually perked my attention. I'm pleasantly surprised at this, honestly, if they can slim down its core to be this small... why isn't it on every hand held device everywhere? I'm sure this form of the OS is at least a few years old, if its been in deployment. Then again, when the engineers are done.. and the rest of the company begins working on it... it'll bloat up to 20 gigs. I like the concept over all, but compared to a smaller Linux OS, this looks like 'too little too late' especially when 50 meg ditros have fully working GUIs. Still, as I said before, its the first time in a long time something MS did made me go, 'WoW'... instead of MEH.

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sounds WAY COOL

Oct 19, 2007 12:09     

I bet this is a whole lot faster than full Vista with all the bloat. I get people will want to buy a super lean OS. (maybe with basic graphics) People will still buy hardware. Crysis takes a lot of horsepower to run, lean or not.
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Looks familiar...

Oct 19, 2007 12:23     

I can remember when it was called DOS. At the very least, it appears that they are starting from scratch this time, rather than upgrading DOS all the way to Windows ME, and then rehashing NT all the way to Vista.
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Completely Useless

Oct 19, 2007 12:32     

This is just as useless as those mini linux distros. Any of you who have actually used those know that they can't run jack without downloading piles of dependencies, other than a few barebones applications. You know what those are? The stuff that would have been in a "bloated" distro, in the first place. The same is true of Windows. Something like this is useless because it has none of those extra APIs (MFC anyone?) to support applications you know and love (including your games).

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Gamers Edition of Windows?

Oct 19, 2007 12:36     

They have a multimedia version of Windows that is called Media Center. Why not a stripped down version of Windows that just runs games and only games. Then you only have the necessary .dll and other junk you need to make a game run. I have been talking about this for a few years now...they are getting closer. I just don't know why they haven't brought it out yet. I mean...why stop at the many flavours of Windows they have now? More versions just makes them more money anyways. That way they are selling two seats per hardware machine. Cmon Billy. Use my idea and pay me some money! Oh ya. I kinda forgot. It's Microsoft. If they did pay me for coming up with this idea I would be the first to let everyone know. Cheers.

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Does this have something to do with Singularity OS?...

Oct 19, 2007 12:56     

Does this have something to do with Singularity OS? I believe it is supposed to be the next big desktop thing (reference thttp://research.microsoft.com/os/singularity/) It is mentioned on zdnet that there hasn't been made any link between WinMin and Singularity (http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=842)
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MinWin?

Oct 19, 2007 13:06     

I think the name is catchy. :) It would be nice if it was the minimum instead of trying to use up the space in memory and hard drive. Perhaps they are trying to compete with the (not quite done) ReactOS? http://www.reactos.org It takes up little space and runs (most) Win programs.
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RE: Gamers edition..

Oct 19, 2007 13:28     

They do. It's the Xbox OS.
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kansur0:

Oct 19, 2007 13:35     

Google TinyXP or MicroXP.
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This is why Vista is WIN ME 2

Oct 19, 2007 13:35     

2 year shelf life and not enough new features to justify up to $399 price tag. There is simply nothing coming out on the horizon that PC users can't wait 1 year for... Even DX10 games which offer very little visual difference until mid to late 2008...
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Minuet

Oct 19, 2007 13:51     

Of course it's nothing like Minuet that can do everything off a floppy... Or even the ancient Amiga OS 1.0 which could multitask in 256K (not M, K). Kinda beats that Windows 1.0 which came our in a similar time frame.
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scalability

Oct 19, 2007 13:55     

The benefits of starting from scratch and trying to make a minimal install windows is scalability. They could use the same OS from handhelds all the way to servers. Just like Linux already can. Windows CE went nowhere and Vista is too bloated now...they need to compete or lose marketshare. Microsoft would benefit from making their OS more modular..I can only imagine what drivers and services that I do not use with Vista and XP right now. This MinWin does look like DOS..maybe they should bring it back and figure out a more effecient way to initialize a gui. XML?

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Action Jackson

Oct 19, 2007 14:11     

Do you realize that linux uses half of that not to mention that new versions of ubuntu have a gui just like windows, you might want to do a little research before you post. http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/screenshots-710
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Re: Gamers Edition of windows

Oct 19, 2007 14:44     

A windows only made to play games...They actualy have that already, it's called XBox 360.
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@Enlighten

Oct 19, 2007 14:45     

I think you are the only fool on the planet to have paid $399 for it. Its like $80 with a new PC. Learn2Shop.
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User of Vista Makes Comments

Oct 19, 2007 15:14     

Ok so I have Vista, Talk about Memory usage! I built my own system VERY carefully. I do alot of LAN gaming and I need to reboot every 2 hours due to my frame rate dropping to 5FPS. Microsoft released a Vista Memory Fix and that did nothing. They know the problem exists, DOS was great, IF they can get High Quality performance and graphics for games to boot up in an OS then you don't have to worry about all of the junk running in the background. Did anyone say Boot Disk? Ohh yeah! Have a great day!

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Sounds nice...

Oct 19, 2007 17:35     

It sounds nice to have a small kernal. Most people don't realize that its mostly the drivers for their hardware that take most of the memory. Hell for Vista the ATI drivers were roughly 150MB for the total install. And Ron, ubuntu can have the same GUI but untill it can run games like Windows its pretty much useless. Except for a data server but still not easy for a basic user only for power users. Kamujin, I have tried to explain that to Enlighten before and he obviously dosn't listen. I got Vista Premium for $110 dollars on newegg and Ultimate is $140. And by the way Enlighten, if you haven't been looking at Crysis and you can honestly tell me that that doesn't blow you away then you must have uber high graphic expectations. Plus pick up Novembers PC gamer and look at the DX9/DX10 comparisons and you will see the difference, trust me. All I can say is mmMMMmmmm..... God Rays.....

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English 101...

Oct 19, 2007 18:03     

Kamujin - "I think you are the only fool on the planet to have paid $399 for it." Please stop the speed readin, it's not working for you pal. 1) Please point out where I said that I have it 2) It was launch in many flavors going to a price up to $399 ultimate. And even high for the suckers that bought the 'Vista Bill Gates Edition' 3) Key words in english "Up To" covers 0 through 399. 4) $80 for a OS with a 2 year shelf life is still too much. Now if you post a parroted version is zero then count me in. I would even pay up to $30 for a DX10 upgrade to XP which is the very least your buddies should have done for the masses they sucker on a daily basis. 5) You still have failed to post 10 features in vista that are a must to have before 2009. You and your buddies run from post to post not answering facts. Is your memory coming back to you pal? Maybe this will help. www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34011/144

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jimmy:

Oct 19, 2007 18:06     

enough said http://www.fsckin.com/2007/10/15/how-to-run-team-fortress-2-half-life-2-hl2-ep-12-in-ubuntu-using-wine/
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@ Enlighten

Oct 19, 2007 20:32     

1. Auxilary displays: A new feature in Vista allows laptops computers with small screens on the outside of the computer, 2. Security such as BitLocker Drive Encryption 3. Address Space Layout Randmonizer (ASLR) that helps eliminate remote system attacks for the first time on the Windows platform. This feature ensures that system files load at random (1 in 256) memory offsets at every system boot 4. Windows Vista natively supports a new generation of hybrid hard drives 5. Windows Vista uses a new version of SuperFetch that causes frequently-accessed applications to start up more quickly than is possible on Windows XP. SuperFetch works behind the scenes, examining how you use your PC over time 6. Kernel Patch Protection, or PatchGuard. This feature, available only on the x64 versions of Windows Vista, prevents programs from patching the Windows kernel at runtime 7. Windows Calendar 8. Windows Media Center 9. Windows Speech Recognition 10. DVD burning 11. DX10 12. Vista's new Backup 13. Vista's Search. 14. Support from MS.......the list I guess could go on and on You can rant all you want Enlighten, nobody probably will really care about your response. Just thought I would post some for you as you seem to keep asking for some XP to Vista improvements.

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RE: Gamers edition...

Oct 19, 2007 20:54     

In modern games, this just won't work. Even the Xbox/360 versions of OS are much more robust that this shows. Also keep in mind a PC and an Xbox/360 are two totally different machines, and require much different tool sets. much of the Xbox's "OS" is loaded on the fly with the game anyway. Anyway, in games all the developers today are completely and entirely hooked on using the crutch of the OS as provided to them today. They need the 1 gig of drivers/directx/opengl/hooks/api and such to get a decent game to be sellable. All this is what adds up to the multi-gig installs of an OS (even in OS-X too!) Linux doesn't have such layers of programability, the main reason why gaming is so poor on Linux. That's the reality of gaming.

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gamers OS

Oct 19, 2007 21:28     

there is a feature on my laptop that boots the computer into a multimedia mode, without booting the OS. if Microsoft could do this with games,that wouyld be awesome. just pop in the disk and play?
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corporate totalitarianism

Oct 19, 2007 23:26     

After looking at this video, I must say Oh My God. There was some controversy over the previous Windows 95 installer because it attempted to connect to the internet if available. Later, spyware, DRM and malware became ubiquitous to the Windows name. They are loading a HTTP server into the kernel? So Microsoft can log into any Windows user's computer.. and we are supposed to trust their totalitarian digital hegemony ? After websites like xp-antispy.org I guess they want their malware so embedded that noone, except a hacker with a source code can turn it off.

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just shows the kernel

Oct 20, 2007 01:21     

is small, that means most of the memory is being taken up by everything else... course you add on this for compatability... this for ease of use... this to make it sparkle, then you have more things running that eat up memory. To make it faster would mean taking out stuff you dont need. But MS couldnt do that cause they want everyone to have whatever they need, so they ship it with more than you need (basically 3 bullets is better 'n one). Mabie they should think about giving you complete control of every application and system file so you could decide which ones you need (though it would take alot of patience, and a big ol' book tellin you what everything does), call it Vista Control.

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I was going to skip Vista and go for the next one f...

Oct 20, 2007 03:17     

I was going to skip Vista and go for the next one for my gaming, but if people like Oisin here are coming along, maybe I'll join Rick and others and boycott Windows once for all. There are still older Windows versions to play the old games I'm used to, and there will be precious rare games coming for Linux (would have been more in the future but maybe MS can learn from own mistakes after all)... I hope they make the GUI optional in loading (learn from others) and DX independent from it, so that I could load a game in plain old fashioned command line way if I wanted to. But maybe complete control over what starts up at boot might be too much to ask...

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@diode: the 'new stuff'...

Oct 20, 2007 04:27     

Auxillary display: oh, you mean, plug in a second screen and have dedicated display on it? It's been, what, 20 years since Xerox included multiple display configurations in X (I do mean dedicated display, not extended desktop)? BitLocker: ah - funny, Windows 2000's NTFS already allowed file encryption on a per user and per file basis... Right, this time they didn't forget to encrypt the key too. ASLR: on Linux, known as parallel init - whatever is fastest to load, loads. hybrid hard drives: if you call managing a drive's cache a new feature, then yes. However, a smaller OS with better file allocation just doesn't need it. Kernel Patch Protection: oooh, you mean, they finally managed to secure the kernel memory space? Finally! After 15 years of NT! 7,8,9: more ground for monopolistic trials. 10:growisofs, cdrkit. 'nuff said. 11:OpenGL 12:new Backup, is it able to read former backup files? Like windows 95 did when upgrading form DOS? 13:Google Desktop Search... 14:support? You haven't read your Vista EULA carefully, I guess. It's not support, it's "your computers are belong to M$ now".

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@narg, on API stuff...

Oct 20, 2007 04:33     

"Linux doesn't have such layers of programability, the main reason why gaming is so poor on Linux. " not exactly: you do have stuff like ALSA sound acceleration and hardware mixing, used by the OpenAL stack - installed and loaded when needed. You also have stuff like OpenGL 2.1 support - again, loaded only when needed. The difference is that those APIs are constantly cleaned up and evolve very fast, keeping only the bare modicum of backward compatibility required, through a modular design. A Linux system does allow gaming - it's just that not many game editors bother with building a Linux client. Id software is one; Quake wars:ET works well enough on Linux. You just don't have to install and load those APIs at boot like Windows forces you to.

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Bollocks!

Oct 20, 2007 05:06     

Why is this something so new? Sure, for people that have only heard of Microsoft Windows it would be... And for those that have indeed heard of Linux, if you want to talk about minimalist versions of Linux, there's one version that requires 32MB disk space and I believe 16~32MB ram, and that's not what it runs with at boot up, it's what it requires to function properly! Regardless... Microsoft say XP requires 256 minimum ram to run? Well, I got mine running with 37.8MB at startup. Lost functionalities? Only the ability to join a network/domain. For me to do that I need to re-enable some services that will shoot the memory consumption up to 68MB, which is not that much anyway. I didn't even remove any driver support or anything, if I were to I bet I could cut it down to say 30MB probably. I watch videos, I play games (WoW and F.E.A.R), surf the net and never have I come across something that my computer could not do because of the things I removed. And all of this without losing any graphical interface. You want to talk about stripping down Windows? Start stripping down XP! The only good MS OS so far for end-users, if you ask me! Peace.

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Ever heard of Windows 95 ?

Oct 20, 2007 05:19     

Wasnt Windows 95 using 8 MB of Ram ? Seems like humans have a mass Amnesia.
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Awesome

Oct 20, 2007 06:22     

And I want to agree with wat dmac said. I've written to MS several times about producing a lean mean gamers boot option. It would be more than awesome. Anybody with any sense should understand why Windows has gotten so bloated. It supports just about everything and it does so reasonably smoothly. I see this small idea going places. Good job so far MS!
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If hackers can get down the size of Windows

Oct 20, 2007 07:45     

Why can't Microsoft? Though, I think I heard that 99% of the size of Windows Vista are..... old drivers that nobody really needs anymore? I would have just left them out and had people download them online if they needed them from a server that Microsoft set up with the help of the companies who stuff needed drivers. As to the "Vista being ME 2"..... As if! Sure, there are SOME problems with Windows Vista right now, including a random folder (not file!) corruption problem that actually seems to have gone away on my machine. But I had these problems with Windows XP when it first came out and I bought a computer with it installed, until I downloaded Service Pack 1.

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I miss my Amiga

Oct 20, 2007 15:52     

It booted a multitasking gui with 2MB chip ram, and and it had no virtual mem. I later added 4MB of fast ram, which allowed for a lot more than 2MB chip ram only.
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Hmmm... There was another machine with a GUI OS tha...

Oct 20, 2007 18:58     

Hmmm... There was another machine with a GUI OS that did all of what everyone is describing. It was called the Amiga ....
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ron:

Oct 20, 2007 23:02     

really? it's nice i can run a few games on linux after a half hour or so of configurations and setups after finding this and that driver all myself. look, everyone, i know microsoft isn't that great, but consider their job: drivers to make most all devices plug-and-play so even the ignorant can use their tech-stuff. that's a big job. no one else does it, in case you haven't noticed; apple makes all their own products, and drivers for linux are on a do-it-yourself or hope-the-company-made-one basis. no, the operating system isn't the smallest, or fastest, or most friendly. but it has no equal. the day i see a distro of linux that can do what my windows machines do is the day that i'll install linux on all of them. and yes, i've gone through 9 different distros already, searching for a good one. i'm on pclinuxos 07 if anyone's wondering. it's between that and ubuntu.

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rofl

Oct 20, 2007 23:04     

I love to see a company never resting on its butt. They just released Vista and already looking towards the future of what is possible. Enlighten is the most stubborn person I have ever met. 80$ for an OS with a 2 year life span with full support and upgrades, is a steal! 199$ for an OS of 5 year life span is about right. Many people have put many man hours into building Vista and I think they should be paid for it. XP wasn't built properly from the start, many things in life are like this, we can't all be perfect. As they saw the path towards the future they were forced to build a new OS. If you don't need XP then don't buy Vista, simple solution. Upgrade when you need to. End of discussion.

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Bah

Oct 21, 2007 13:15     

32MB RAM consumption with only basic HTTP server, and showing off? I am currently running Linux on my PS2, which has only 30MB of RAM avaliable. It is running latest version of Apache PHP, with database support. AND it is also running an icecast server, and an openvpn server. The entire system takes only about 40MB of memory (10MB on swap). They should really be trying to catch up with that.
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@ Diode

Oct 21, 2007 13:20     

All very Nice Items Vista offers. But a lot are rather useless to most of us if not simply not worth the money to "move up". You might want to get better reasons next time, not just the Crap M$ Feeds you.
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Sounds fine..

Oct 21, 2007 17:08     

If they'll come up with a small but able OS upon release, it will be great. I just hope they won't forget to make it compatible with the 486 systems so I can pull out my 15yr old PC from the cabinet. Heheh. Sounds like resurrection of the PC ancestors.
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@Oisin

Oct 21, 2007 17:14     

I hate to burst your conspiracy bubble here, But... M$ is not building an HTTP server into the core of this "EXPERIMENTAL" kernel. They are simply trying to show that a minimalistic set of drivers and CUSTOM software will run above it. NOT PART OF IT. If M$ wanted to do that kind of thing you are mentioning it would be already enabled and active after the first time you download and install Security and Windows updates. It would happen transparently while the M$ server is communicating with your PC to get updates and the like. Do us all a favor and leave the conspiracy theories to those who give a dam. That being said, I believe its not here. Go play apocalypse elsewhere.

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@ Diode

Oct 21, 2007 19:55     

you just listen extra features that 99% of people won't touch. Where are the real improvements that ms promised? e.g. the faster booting and performance, did they forget to include that or did it not fit because of all of the new features (read:bloat ware).
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Re: Gamers Edition of Windows?

Oct 21, 2007 21:07     

Microsoft does have a games-only version of Windows, it's called XBox 360.
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Not impressed either...

Oct 22, 2007 15:29     

Ever heard of AmigaOS? Google it, with images too. In 1986, it would boot into the computer with 256 or 512mb of RAM. (Back in 1986, 1MB would cost you about $800 [one megabyte! Or 1/1000th of a standard 1GB $350 Vista PC]) Even AmigaOS 3.0 (1992) would run great with 1mb of RAM (It used less RAM than AmigaOS 1.x and 2.x).. BTW: AmigaOS was the first consumer Mult-tasking OS. In many ways, Win98 was still behind... even when installing XP on a computer, its rather "OLD-TECH" compared to Amiga OS 2~3 from the 80s/90s. XP: Install from CD - with TEXT based setup - press various F-Keys to setup. AmigaOS 2/3: Boot from a 880k Floppy into a fully functional GUI OS. Click on HD Tools ICON to visually format/partition the HD. Click Install OS Icon to do the obvious... which only asked for Disks 1~4/5. Look at it this way. Even a 1988s era Amiga has the ability to log-on to the internet (kinda sucky, but it can) - but the 1992 Amigas would do better... and that was before there were browsers. Old MAC and PCs (MS-DOS, Windows 1-2) - er, uh no. Hmmm.. MS uses the miniWindows for their own uses... sounds like they know their bloated junk is... junk and that EVEN they don't want to use it.

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re: Gamers Edition of Windows?

Oct 22, 2007 22:44     

Consoles are not in my Preference. PC gaming all the way XD
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Response PT 1

Oct 23, 2007 16:42     

Wow too tooo funny I can’t believe you’d say #14 as a feature, but since you did please explain where has service pack 3 been hiding from that very trust worthy company? Seriously how in the hell can you say that, when the last time I checked MS is responsible for XP. I also guess you didn't read my post windows 7 aka vienna will be released in 2009. XP support ends early 2008 vista will be ending shortly after that. I want the maker of the OS to complete a project instead of being whisked away into the next cash cow for them. And I wish you jerks would stop posting ‘it’s only 80, 90 etc That’s a steal’. First of all you can find cheap copies being WIN ME 2 because its not worth the cost, that’s driving down the price. Otherwise the retail price wouldn’t have been 199 to 399. Let me hurry and finish putting your logic out of its misery… I hate seeing anything badly wounded… #2 Drive Encryption... #7 Windows calendar... #8 Windows Media Center... can you say DRM? LOL hahahaha hey don’t forget calculator & notepad #9 Speech Recognition... who is the #1 voice rec company? #10 DVD burning... again who is rated best dvd authoring software? #12 Back up... wow novel concept I guess this is news to you, but there are many companies that sell products that do this already. And guess what it’s called competition and choice. That is the best thing for the consumer. The best products should be gathered, tested & evaluated so that we can CHOOSE what’s best for us. In your mind you need to be spoon fed and basically microfluff is all you ever need aka MS B!owboy Dude shake yourself… WTF are you thinking, if its that important, you would’ve already purchased it for XP over the past 8 years. If you’re saying you sat back and held your breath for MS to make a version then you are a pure loser… So please bring on your fanboi list that shows you as a complete fool of yourself. How many times must I say this? I don’t want MS shoving all of their products down my throat. Especially charging me for ones I don’t need or use. Listen I buy my operating system to surprisingly OPERATE MY SYSTEM. I don’t buy my OS hoping that it grows to contain every product on the market. At an OS cost that also has been growing because of MS shoving COPY CAT version of successful software on the market. And here’s a news flash, I want them working hard to make the operating system perform COMPLETELY as advertised.

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Response PT 2

Oct 23, 2007 16:57     

#5 Windows Vista uses a new version of SuperFetch that causes frequently-accessed applications to start up more quickly than is possible on Windows XP. SuperFetch works behind the scenes, examining how you use your PC over time. If hard drive performance was of the utmost importance to you then you'd have a raptor 36 gig drive as your boot drive at the very least. And a 15K drive SCSI as a next option both of which is cheaper than a 2 year shelf life OS. Splitting your drives offers you the best overall performance because virtual memory can be working on one drive and data could be retrieved from another. That is much more valuable than trying to have the OS determine if you are needs frequently used data. I perform most installs onto a different drive than my root. Just remember 2009 windows 7 is released... So when you try to convince us that you can't hold out 1 year without windows calender, media player, back up it is so laughable...

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Response PT 3

Oct 23, 2007 17:03     

4. Windows Vista natively supports a new generation of hybrid hard drives What drives might those be? Are they here? Yoou mean I'll be forced to use only a terebyte or 500 gig sata 3 until 2009. OMG what will I do in 2008 without a new hybird drive. The world may come crashing. Please all chime in on how you not being able to use a hybird drive for 1 year is gonna make your computing experience cease. what will you do? I think I'm so scared of being left out, I may buy vista tomorrow ummmmmm NOT!!!

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Response PT 4

Oct 23, 2007 17:29     

11. DX10 This is promised future crap that has only been visible seen in still shots and non playable demo's. The games that exist today are basically ports to DX10. They offer no real big visual difference between DX9. It is reported that it's more important to have a DX10 card than actually having DX10 in vista. Unless you count the microsoft hostage attempt for Halo 2 & 3. Its manufactured crap to force vista sales and so is DX10 on vista. *** NEWS FLASH *** Slightly better picture contrast, brightness and detail does not equate to game play. Great looking crap is still crap. A games like total annihilation has been an all time RTS favorite for over 10 years, then you have ages of empires conquerer, other top games still played today. Do you know why? It was a great game. Madden 2007 & 2008 have very similar game play. But they add more face detail and guys like you wet your pants for the next version. Get real... Please read 'Gaming enthusiasts' section of www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/facts/benefit.mspx 1) DX10 - This is a big one for gamers. It's a situation 'manufactured' by microfluff to try to prevent vista from being a win ME repeat. And if you read the gamers enthusiast section you'd realize that DX10 was first intended to be on XP. "video game developers are at work right now building exciting 64-bit native games to help push these limits even further. Since data in memory is accessed about 10,000 times faster than it is on a disk drive, 64-bit native games hold the potential for significantly faster graphics rendering, producing photo-realistic immersion and rapid-fire play without annoying delays". Because you now see these words only being used for DX10 'photo-realistic'. Since you trust and believe microfluff so much. Find out who are these developers? Where are those 64 bit games that MS claims would be rocking our worlds? photo-realistic will be in XP64, if your buddies wasn't lying then how much better can you get then photo-realistic? Reminder I can wait until 2009 to see how DX10 will shake out if needed. Read the videocard section of maximum pc holiday 2007 mag. The quotes from Doug Lmbardi os valve stem. The unified architecture in the DX10 class cards offers more than the DX10 API for most developers. You have heard of a company called ID right? does quake ring a bell? read the statements from them... DUDE JUST READ !!!

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Response PT 4

Oct 23, 2007 18:03     

6. Kernel Patch Protection, or PatchGuard. This feature, available only on the x64 versions of Windows Vista, prevents programs from patching the Windows kernel at runtime Wow very nice so why does you buddies only have this GREAT feature working on 64 bit again? I hate to give you yet another NEWS FLASH... This and your bit locker was busted up long ago. ATTENTION VISTA FANBOIZZZ THERE IS NO PERFECT SECURE SYSTEM Stop reading advertisements and press clippings and join us in the real world. www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31858/108/ People were busting that OS open just like they did XP. Microfluff lied to you they added Windows Defender and locked down the kernal to perform another unfair practice on companies with existing products. AGAIN I WANT COMPETITION ON PRODUCTS AND NOT MS SHOVING THEIR SOLUTION DOWN MY THROAT AT A COST TO ME. IE EXPLORER ISN'T FREE, MEDIA PLAYER ISN'T FREE, CALCULATOR ISN'T FREE... All of those components has a dollar value associated with it. They added bread crumbs which many have been doing in XP for free. I guess it's a nice feature, but I like free better. Do you really think I can't live without this vista 64 bit kernel for 1 more year? I think so...

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Response PT 5

Oct 23, 2007 18:30     

3. Address Space Layout Randmonizer (ASLR) that helps eliminate remote system attacks for the first time on the Windows platform. This feature ensures that system files load at random (1 in 256) memory offsets at every system boot Keyword here young jedi "helps" When it says "IT ELIMINATES" then you have something to hang your hate on pal. If that crap all worked then it wouldn't have needed hot fixes. "One fixes a remote code execution vulnerability in Windows, while another concerns the same problem for Windows Vista." LOL fanboy speculation was true "two other patches to Windows Vista to fix optimization problems, which were released on Wednesday, will sneak into the Windows Update file alongside the security updates." www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33327/108/ *** ATTENTION OPEN BETA VISTA OWNERS *** YOU HAVE AN OS WITH A LITTLE OVER A 2 YEAR SHELF LIFE. 1 OF THOSE YEARS ARE GONE AND BY THE TIME SP1 IS RELEASED YOU"LL HAVE LESS THAN A YEAR BEFORE YOU ARE WHISKED AWAY INTO THE NEXT OS YOU OPEN BETA PURCHASE HELPS US BECAUSE VIENNA WILL BE A MORE SOLID PRODUCT. I mean you guys don't get it if vista was the answer then vienna would have been pushed back not moved ahead of schedule. Please stop posting how vista is the future, vista just needs more time to mature and how you're waiting until after vista SP1 shakes out to get on board. The end is in sight for XP in mid 2008 and the end is equally in sight less than a year from that date for vista.

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Further Help For Diode the newbie...

Oct 23, 2007 19:06     

Dual monitors display is new? really? Ever here of an old freeware app ultramon? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramon Hydravision, Nview or DualHead Multi-Display by matrox? "Dual monitor support once depended on specialized proprietary video drivers supplied with few video cards, but recently, support for dual monitor configuration comes as a standard feature in Microsoft Windows, Apple's Mac OS X, and on the X Window System. The latest versions of MS Windows support up to 64 monitors." Three main commercial competitors are ATI Technologies with its Hydravision, Matrox with its DualHead Multi-Display and NVIDIA's nView. The technology was once limited to the professional graphics market, but with the advent of more powerful graphic processing units, and the bundling of the software with the respective display cards, penetration into the consumer market has been enabled. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi_monitor Besides the fact that there is no reason for me to want to run dual display from a laptop. SO MY ANSWER IS A RESOUNDING NO I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT. knock off the 5 or 10 from the OS.

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Vista Like Search For Free

Oct 23, 2007 19:30     

I mean please stop the madness people have been doing this prior to vista. MS copies it and now it's a special feature. I take it that you don't explore shareware and free ware too often. It's innovation by programming hack that gave Bill Gates his idea. THEY HAVE BEEN STEALING IDEAS FOR A VERY LONG TIME. Go look at the lawsuits, infringements that MS wiggled out of over the history. Next you'll be listing tabbed browsing as an OS feature creature by buhahahahahaaa www.pcworld.com/downloads/collection/collid,1433-c,downloads/files.html articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10877_11-6171341.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=tr www.maximumpc.com/article/xp_strikes_back_with_windows_desktop_search LOL and I saved this for last for a reason. To show you this You should read what beta testers of SP3 have said is in there lol lots of crap they have held back on purpose so that you open beta owners would think its a no brainer to move to vista. www.pcworld.com/article/id,138251/article.html Please try reading this: www.pcworld.com/article/id,138693/article.html

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To Jimmy

Oct 24, 2007 14:58     

You guys are too funny... Jimmy - "I have tried to explain that to Enlighten before and he obviously dosn't listen" Hmmmmm I guess you never went back to those post where you didn't respond. So I'll try this again before you do like kumujin, jeff, blessman etc who post and run. www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34300/122/ www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34202/140/ Jimmy - "Plus pick up Novembers PC gamer and look at the DX9/DX10 comparisons and you will see the difference, trust me." As I stated similarly in the other post: 'There have been several places that have performed those test please try reading" "None of the tested games can boast much higher visual quality in comparison with the DirectX 9 applications while the use of DirectX 10 lowers the frame rate. We guess the only lucky example of a DirectX 10 game is Call of Juarez DX10, but largely due to its initially beautiful DirectX 9 visuals." www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/directx10-games_15.html#sect0 Read the videocard section of maximum pc holiday 2007 mag. The quotes from Doug Lombardi of valve stem. The unified architecture in the DX10 class cards offers more than the DX10 API for most developers. You have heard of a company called ID right? does quake ring a bell? read the statements from them...' Again CRYSIS is a very beautiful game. As long as the game playable I will do something most of you non-back boned losers can do. It's called sacrifice, make a stand and show some consumer back bone. Wow who-da-thunk-it... Someone willing to fight and say microfluff I'm tired of you spending more time collecting my money, stealing new ideas, forcing bloatware and other crap down my throat and charging me dearly for it. You guys are too damn funny seriously. I can't think of any other situation where so many people will simply turned the other cheek to be slapped again. What does it mean to you that SP3 was held back/postponed to help bolster vista sales. Please read response #4 where I discuss DX10. microsoft collected money claiming XP64 would have these 64bit games that would do things that is now touted only for DX10. Is it not obvious that DX10 was originally going to be released for XP then they remembered how they released a new direct X on both 98SE and win ME. In the other post you told me to "Take 2 PCs and sit the side by side with the same hardware. Have Vista on one and XP on the other. Run BioShock on both and set them both to the same resolutions and graphics settings. Look at what DX10 does in comparison. You will understand the difference." Here "Valve Software believes that it hardly makes sense to jump on the DirectX 10 bandwagon just now, as certain DX10 hardware capabilities can be used even in DirectX 9 environment." “Right now with the flexibility of DX9, we can take advantage of DX10 hardware functionality through DX9. For example, the tesselator in ATI’s [Radeon HD 2000] hardware is super valuable and we can get to it through DX9, so that’s probably a better investment than going after a DX10 API,” Mr. Newell added. www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20070827225710.html "For instance, Far Cry game was objectively more visually attractive than Doom III or Half-Life 2, but the latter two were far more popular." www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20070115233110.html I am a gamer and hope DX10 games as a whole come along as promised. But I can hold out on playing 1 to 2 games in DX10 for a half a year until 2009 when I will get vienna that has DX10. PLEASE TRY READING AND RESPONDING... Thank you

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To suckers

Oct 24, 2007 16:01     

Wow another posting running man. Where do you guys disappear too. It's pretty funny that you guys can do a post then don't answer tough questions. Blessman - "I love to see a company never resting on its butt. They just released Vista and already looking towards the future of what is possible. " So this means if microfluff popped vista 2 onto a new road map for next year you'd buy it? Then you'll buy vienna in 2009 And 2010 they decide to release XXX you'd get that too. I mean anything microfluff produces we should buy whether it's needed or not. Shake your self dude... "Many people have put many man hours into building Vista and I think they should be paid for it." Wow what a MS b!ow boy statement... They do get paid for it. In fact they get paid for more than what it's worth. *** NEWS FLASH *** the product is released but never completed. Where is SP3 pal? Why so long? Take some of those innovating copy cat staff people and actually complete the product. Novel concept eh? If I was building you a house and said I'm done. You find problems in the foundation (kernel. The toilet was in backward, a few windows :-) don't open correctly, the cooling/heating system partially works, 6 walls lean and several doors don't close. You'd have no problem paying me in full and then I would attempt to fix a few of them. Then the remaining things that I can't fix, I'll simply build another house and offer that one at a steal 200K. Are you saying you would have no problem with that? You'd keep letting me be your builder over and over and never complain? Blessman have you ever made a stance before? to you enjoy being taken for granted? How about the promises microfluf has made and not delivered on. Read my reposes above tell me where I'm wrong?

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pls fix vista first

Oct 31, 2007 10:07     

I do believe MS should fix their existing product before they boast about their next version windows, MS recent strategy on Vista is very much like a typical politician running a country, divert attention from problems and impose a new dream to fool people. Who knows what will happen to windows 7.
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Why do you all even rewad this?

Jan 17, 2008 00:24     

The thing that makes me wonder is why all these obvious linux fanboys even bother reading and commenting on Microsoft articles. If you are so against it, why not just ignore it but then again I guess its all for the attention.
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Linux shrill

Jan 17, 2008 15:07     

Ahh... the "Linux shrill". Yes, we all know how great you think your OS is.. Guess what? No matter what, my OS is better. What is my OS? It doesn't matter, I am just going to shrill about how it ru13$ over Windows. whether it does or does not is not the point. All this article was talking about was new features in Windows, thats all. Not how it will be better than any other OS. - STFU
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Back in my day... 33mb was alot.

Jan 18, 2008 22:19     

Back in my day running a HTTP server in 33mb of memory would have been considered... nothing impressive whatsoever. thats still a hell of alot of data, try counting to 33mb yeah. 33mb would be enough data to store everything you've ever written ( in your life ) anyone tried linux latley? damn small linux was doing this at 50mb 5 years ago oh and that has a GUI too
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@Tom

Jan 21, 2008 15:37     

Umm, 33MB is roughly 33 million letters. Uncompressed and in pure TXT I have written roughly about 300 to 350MB of text. I write a lot. Ive had .docs that were like 200MB. Trust me, its very much doable. @everyone else. 33MB is a kernel so complex it would make Mr. Linus and his merry men weep. Think of it this way, imagine a code, where each line might have 33 characters in it (which is at times a stretch), thats 10 million lines of code. Not bad at all. and even then it runs a server with 100 memory addresses accessible from a network adapter code and still enough memory to hold every individual instruction in the kernel's specific language. I daresay, thats not bad. Linux is great right up until around the time you install it and use it. Windows is never going to be open source, Its a money making company with strong roots in the corporate/professional world. @LogicallyGenius umm, think of it this way, thats like 14 years ago, id be worried if the kernel was still that simple (in regards to 95) and it wasn't even NT. once YOU add several million lines of code and debug the rest to get it running like modern NT OS' then come back and tell me how much ram its using. Remember it was serving files, so it was running its own little code apart from just being awake. All in all, not bad at all.

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