If you don't want to pay 100 extra for 40 more gigs and don't want to play PS2 Games just buy the 40 gig version and you can swap it out with any 2.5" form factor SATA hard drive.

WTH are they thinking? being a PS3 owner, I love my PS3, but SERIOUSLY SPEAKING the game library is just ... sad for PS3. and wtf is the point of the 40gb PS3 ? They're still trying to get people to get the more expensive one. same idea when they first released the 20 gb model, add 100 you get *a lot more*.

the 40 gb model will attract a lot of blu-ray player buyers. but not gamers.

and 80 gb model is a total rip off.

Anything else Sony ? if you want to die in this market, just keep on doing what you're doing now.

This seems kind of fishy to me. I'm still on the fence as to which system I'll get. I know I'm going to get a Wii, as soon as I can find one, but I do want a "true" next gen system too such as a Xbox 360 or PS3. The ability to play PS2 games would have been nice especially at the 399 price point, but now they have lost that advantage. Now I'll just have to wait and see how the games on each system measure up to decide which route to go.

Actually this might attract does who didn't buy a ps2 and don't really care much for the compatibility.

A note to the editor, I believe I read somewhere else that the 40GB model doesn't have the card readers either.

The 80GB model doesn't have the emotion chip for PS2 game play either. To get backward compatibility you have to buy the original 60GB PS3 which just came down a further $100.00, from $549.00 to $449.00. There are still a lot in stores that have them in stock, just call around a bit. There a many PS2 games that will play without the emotion chip and most of the PS1 games will still play. The new PS3 uses software emulation instead of the emotion chip.

I want a PS-3 with more than 512 MB of ram. 4 gig would be cool, 8 would be better. Sony needs to understand that not everyone uses a PS-3 for games and movies. It is a very inexpensive platform to play with Cell code. Yellow Dog Linux rocks, but it needs more ram.

I was one of the poor saps with one of the first ones *that I already had to have sony replace* and I am sick of them trying to cut prices here, limit functionality here, Come out with some darn games for the system!! There are only two title thus far that have even sparked my interest, Heavenly Sword I bdefeated in two days, and warhawk seems like an ATARI game compared to Halo 3... You want the PS3 to sell, stop making PS2 games and focus all your energy on your current platform; it is kinda like Microsoft putting more money and development into windows 2000....

omg you can't play ps2 games.

if you want ps2 games save 300 bucks, buy a ps2.

if you want a ps3 to play blu-ray, and ps3 games. then get a 399 ps3. If you want all in one get a 499 ps3.

For all those that say that sony wasn't giving you a choice, and that they should have the blu-ray drive because it inceases the cost 200 dollars.

well now you have a choice, and your crying.

outside of missing the ps2 inside, the only other thing missing is memory card reader. which frankly is not that usefull. It still comes with wi-fi. a 100 dollar opiton on the 360.

This news will probably cause a sales vacuum for the next few weeks. Things will pick up big-time come Nov. 2. -- I don't know how long that will last, however.

At this point, cheap Blu-Ray playback for the impatient is the biggest selling point of the machine. None of the potential blockbuster titles are near release and 360 is a better gaming option by a longshot. I have a 60GB because I'm an early-bird launch sucker. I already had a 360, which combined with the PS3's lackluster lineup and relatively lesser perform on multiplatform titles renders the PS3 a bust for me -- save for Blu-Ray (oh, and the backward compatibility, of course).

Even considering blind loyalty and a hard-on for Blu-Ray, I don't see why a "gamer" would by the PS3 AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

Chick0n, your here to complain no matter what, everybody knows it. Just keep you PS2 stupid. When the PS2 came out it wasn't PS1 compatible either. I have owned them all, and in my opinion the PS3 is the only one worth buying as I felt disappointed with the performance of the previous models. So stop crying, and buy the 60GB version if you want backward compatibility on your PS3. There are still a lot around and guess what? They just came down a further $100.00 in price along with the 80GB version as well.

Rodney, you posted here before, you’re an Xbox owner! Why are these Xbox and HD DVD owners trying to make out as thought there not already? The Xbox will still be around if that’s good enough for them and even HD DVD will be around too. Evan Bata was around for years after the war. For some reason they feel threatened.

I have the 60GB model now for almost a year and never used more than 20GB. 40GB is lots, I think Sony finally realised it. If you really think you need more just swap it out with a larger 2.5" SATA drive. It's easy and it doesn't void you’re warranty

As Anosh said already the card readers gone. It also only has 2 usb ports (instead of 4), and has lost the Graphics Synthesiser chip. The GS chip was usued for the PS2 backward compatibility, so it's not just Sony cutting out the sofware support. From what I hear these changes reduced the cost by ~$80 so if you're not worried about PS2 support it's a good deal.

EVEN if i'm interested in PS3, I'll definitely wait for I-dont-know-what-im-waiting-for. They change prices, and hardware specs WAY too frequently.

They are like testing the water every month. If this doesnt work, then will go for the next one. The way they are doing this looks very unprofessional to me.

I feel sorry for those who bought PS3 that they keep getting screwed over by frequent hardware upgrades and price changes. Older models depreciate so fast because Sony cant make up their mind on, 1 or 2 specs with 1 reasonably consistent price for a DECENT amount of period, not 1 or 1.5 months.

I know they want to gain back some grounds in this fight, but what they are doing is pretty disgusting and irresponsible to previous PS3 owners (ie their supporters)

It's a fairly common name.

Unlike the PS2 generation there is no one perfect console. As an owner of all 3 I still won't buy a PS3 if I had to pick just one.

Main Reasons:
1.) Game library is poor and I don't see that changing by the holiday rush.
2.) Online game play is far Inferior to that of the 360. However is not existent on the wii so it has it beat there.
3.) I won't and don't use my consoles for movies. It only shortens the life of the console's optical drive and it's not worth it. Having to pay extra for something I don't want to use just makes me mad. BTW most if not all games on the ps3 are not BD there DVD.

All that being said it does have the best graphics of the 3 and is a decent media player. However it's my least favorite and least played of the 3. If the 360 didn't have so many problems it would hands down be my favorite console, but games lock up and you get the 3 ring of death (which the supposedly have fixed now) it's not very fun. The PS3 is not immune to the game lockups either so beware. The Wii has it's flaws too. It's great for fun little fun games (think Mario) but struggle with more in depth and mature games.

Anyway if you on the fence I hope this helps.

Sam, are you implying that only Sony fanboys are allowed to make comments about Sony articles?

Anyhow, I agree with whoever said they should redirect their efforts into making some actual decent games. Sony makes tons of headlines but unfortunately none of them are about great games…. Just price drops, new PS3 versions and Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD sales ratios. I’m sick of my PS3 just sitting there collecting dust.

The 2 extra USB slots were just not needed for most people, and now that the games are starting to arrive there is no need for backward compatibility. Just because your a moron and can't imagine why these changes were made doesn't mean they weren't made for good reason. There are plenty of the original 60GB PS3 now selling for 449.00 to be had. But I think the 399.99 model is all you need. Manufactures don’t guarantee specs and they never have…..ever. I believe all the NA Sayers are Xbox and HD DVD owners that are upset that they're stuck with the red ring of death for Xbox and no support for HD DVD. I guess cheaper wasn’t the best way to go after all.

where's the five star R&CF:TOD?
MGS4?


- checks Canadian price
$499 for the 80GB
"F***ing A"
some one woke up and saw our dollars are comparable.

can't wait until boxing day!!!

..as to how this new console is any different [read, better] than the 20GB launch console that they axed due to poor sales? If I'm not mistaken, that one had the PS2 compat., the card reader, etc..
Sure, this one is $100 off I believe, but the price has reduced to natural progression (meaning the original 20GB could have been this low by now if not lower). Overall, I don't see how the value comparison is different than between the launch consoles.
Perhaps someone can provide an answer. All I know is that if they keep chopping $100 off the price every month or so, they're bound to get some market share. Question is if they are really able to sustain increased losses on the hardware.

Seriously, how is this next gen?

"This one is expensive and features everything!"
"This one is just as expensive, but we removed a couple of things."
"This one is cheap, but has next to nothing."
"This one doesn't work since we removed the processor, but it's priced at only $100!"

I loved my PS1 and my PS2, but there's no way I'll get a PS3. I guess I'll end up getting an XBOX 360 for GTA IV cause I definitely don't want a PS3 if it can't do what it SHOULD have been able to from the start at a respectable price.

I would have to disagree about one having better graphics than the other. I have seen them the same game on the two consoles on the same tv. The PS3 and the 360 are almost equal in the graphics dept. They are pretty much a mixed bag. The 360 will have better HDR but the PS3 will have a few less jaggies. Or the 360 will have more vivid color, and the ps3 will have few less jaggies. Also, I have seen games that also had less jaggies on the 360 than the ps3. You can also look a lot graphical reviews up comparing the two consoles.

Dan,

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them liars or nay sayers. Get a grip man. The PS3 still doesn't have the library that the 360 has, the graphical differences are so minute they are virtually equals, and my 360 hasn't ever had any problems. Also, I really don't care to play HD-DVD or Bluray movies right now, especially not on my console. Playing movies on the console drives have caused them to fail prematurely in the past, I will just use a standalone when they are revised, less expensive, and more reliable.

Actually, the 20 gig version had no card reader and no WiFi. That's why it didn't sell.

I'm waiting until January 2008 when they release the $299 PS3.

While this new model won't play Playstation 3 games, Sony is justifying this move by saying "there aren't any Playstation 3 games anyway."

I intend to use EBworld to trade in my PS2 10 games for a PS3 discount.

What difference does it make to me when I dump all that stuff?

Sure I might be able to get more money by selling it all myself, but the time involved doesn't justify the cost to me.

You can't just say I compared an Xbox and a PS3 side by side with out the details. From the sound of you, I doubt you even have a good High Definition TV. Xbox is only 720p and the PS3 is 1080p and 5 times more powerful and doesn’t come with the red ring of death. You’re a moron and if Xbox is good enough for you that's great. But for some people the Xbox is a poorly designed, out of date game consol and they want more than that, so they buy the PS3. If you don’t believe me go to Wikapia.com and look up Xbox and PS3. You’ll get the down low on both.

Thanks, "B".

So, WiFi & a little extra space are the bonuses, sacrificing compatibility. Seems like an "ok" trade.
WiFi is neat, but does anyone have problems with online game lag due to mega packet loss on the WiFi? [Yes, I realize this is Wireless LAN, which technically trumps any Internet connection but generally you still get big time packet loss compared to wired.] Just wondering if this is a nuisance that reduces the appeal of the WiFi or not. I know I've seen it happen on my PC.

wes, PS3 has only been on the market for 6 months so no wonder it doesn’t have the same amount of games. PS3 games are also a lot larger and more complex which takes longer to build. But the games are coming. You talk as though Sony isn't planning to make or sell any games. You argument is so stupider and full of holes you better just shut up because your embarrassing. Don't worry; I don't think Microsoft is going to stop making Xbox. I don't see the HD DVD add on lasting to long though, even at the $179.00 price point, they've only managed to sell 150,00 units world wide. The PS3 will sell 3 to 5 million world wide over Christmas alone.

Actually, the 20 gig version had no card reader and no WiFi. That's why it didn't sell.
B

In response I have a 40 gig and it doesn't have built in wifi, I have to use my external adapter *for the 360 no less*

Jeremy, I can't wait to see what you’re going to complain about once all the great PS3 games arrive. Just admit it; you’re an Xbox, HD DVD loving Sony hater who can't get anyone to listen to him so you come here to print your BS in the said hope of discouraging anyone from making a better decision than you about which system they should invest in. You’re a great big loser!

I'm having a problem with the lower prices PS3 reasoning with the lack of PS2 support. If they cut out a chip (hardware) I could see that. "We cut the chip out to make the system cheaper" type of argument. But it's software! It's not like it costs Sony any more money to add this to the machine (unless there is some type of licencing fees from a 3rd party), so why cut it?

I was under the impression that Sony got a cut from all PS1/2/3 games sold, that's how the systems used to work, so why cut potential sales. It's not like anyone is going to go out and buy a PS2 & a 40GB PS3, they'd go out and buy the 80GB version. If you have a PS2 now, maybe but given the number of great PS3 games vs PS2 games, why buy now and not next year. I must be missing something. While I don't have any PS2 games, given the PS3's list of good/great games I'd want to have the option to play select PS2 games at least until the PS3 developers started to put games that fully utilize the system's potential.

I'm just not getting Sony's marketing department's idea on this issue.

How many Xbox 360 models are there anyway? According to the reposts I've read 20% of the Xboxes on the market don't even have a hard drive at all. Now Microsoft is telling us that next year the new games are going to require a hard drive because the DVD doesn’t have enough space to hold the new games, so they will be coming out with multiple DVD’s to store the games on. Now you can’t stop in the middle of the game to change discs, so they will have to be installed on a hard drive which 20% don’t have and most of the rest aren’t big enough to install more than a few games. I won't even mention anything about the fact that the internet gaming is free on the PS3, and Xbox makes you pay a subscription fee every single month. I understand the red ring of death comes free with every new and used Xbox. Don't figure!

I never get in these debates..but ..uhm...the 2 systems are pretty even when it comes to delivering games. We've already seen multiplatform games look roughly the same on all the systems. Xbox can do 1080p via software update. Each system has strengths and weaknesses in processing power but I doubt any would be a deal breaker for anyone buying a nextgen system or wanting to play a fun game. So in the end it comes down to features (online play)..and games. I'm assuming late 2008 and 2009 is when the PS3 actually hits it's stride..so IMO there is little point in buying one at this time given the inevitable continued price reductions. Anyone else either wants to replace their PS2 (which has been taken away at $300), is an early adopter, or wants a "cheap" blue ray player. That still misses the target range of average joe consumer who cares less about system specs and wants to pick up a game every now and then for themselves or their kids.

We have the 40GB PS3 already and its $400(NZ) cheaper than the 60GB model

http://www.bondandbond.co.nz/gaming/ps3/ps3-consoles/playstation-3-ps340gb-40gb-console-98248/index.html

QEFX emulation was not purely software..the 80gig ps3 still requires hardware to run PS2 games..i forget which component. They eliminated it completely on this new model. I own a PS1 and a PS2..kinda dissapointed about the lack of atleast emulation on the cheaper models b/c it doesn't bode well for future SKU's (it will be atleast 2 yrs before I buy one...360 first). I retired my PS1 years ago and I would like to do the same for my PS2. I can imagine a few old PS2 games I'd still fire up once and awhile. Having said that I like the PS3 personnally as I'm sure most do...just that games selection is iffy and Sony keeps dropping features. I'm not going to complain about price i guess..cheaper is better.

David Bird your mistaken on the PS2's backwards compatability with PS1 games. I own a launch day PS2 and it plays PS1 games just fine.

As for PS2 compatability being stripped out of some PS3 models I'm a little disappointed and don't think there won't be any confusion about that over the holidays. You know someone will end up getting a PS3 without BC when they wanted one with it.

I totally couldnt find any connection on your post related to mines. I didnt go in depth about what features have been removed leading to price drops or whatever. What I'm saying features is not even a selling point already to a PS3. I never even hinted in my initial post that I dont see why changes or... heck, who even cares what did they do to lower the cost of the production.

What I'm simply saying is, the additions and removals, raise and price drops are so frequently that it's confusing and also no respect to the previous owners. No one wants to buy something to find in a month or TWO they drop $100. I know technology items are bound to drop in prices ... eventually. But they are way too frequent to give new buyers a piece of mind that their investment will last for more than a week.

I didnt even say I expect manufacturers to guarantee specs, I was saying.... "They are like testing the water every month. If this doesnt work, then will go for the next one." It means if 80gig doesnt work, in a month we'll go for 100gig for the same price, then in a month 120gig, then 140gig.. until something works then we'll stop. I never mentioned about manufacturers guarantee specs.

I really dont understand PS3's marketing tactic in testing-the-water so frequently and I dont recall a well-known technological product updating their price this frequently. Maybe amd processors... but still.

I suggest you reread my post, or maybe completely forget about it. I dont think we are even on the same page.

Having played a few games on both consoles, I can safely say the following:
PS3 has better graphics and smoother motion, free online play, and the upcoming Gran Turismo 5 which will boost sales by what, 20% by itself? There are enough hard-core players out there that would get PS3 just for that. But other than that, the future is bleak with hardware omissions and price cuts.

The Xbox 360 has been here for a while, and the new circuitry has eliminated the red ring of death and lowered heat output (which caused said ring). It has the most games and alot of online support, but you have to pay for it, buy add-ons, that scimpy 20GB harddrive, lack of standard features, etc. etc. much like the 20GB PS3. I just got my Xbox and it already has 10gb taken on the harddrive. Also, non-pressure sensitive buttons? wtf? just the shoulders? PS2 had pressure sensitive buttons all over. Also, graphics and movements are a little disappointing. I have true Hi-Def, I can see the difference. It's also hard to play racing games with the shoulder buttons as gas and brake since my thumbs have been trained for sensitivity more than my forefingers.

...come out for the 360 first and go through very little change for the PS3, they don't put any effort in upping the graphics for the PS3's capabilities; native PS3 games show this.

The PS3 and Xbox are not comparable at all. PS3 has Blu-ray with a storage capacity of 100GB, compared to 8GB for the DVD in Xbox. PS3 is 1080p and the Xbox is 720p. The PS3 is 5 times more powerful and can produce photo quality images. The Xbox comes with assorted problems including red ring of death. Xbox has no backward compatibility and even the new 40GB PS3 will play most PS1 and many PS2 games. You’re embarrassing yourself. Stop with your Xbox, HD DVD card caring 5 cent rhetoric, please!

CJ, give it up! Your already invested in Xbox and HD DVD and your hear doing a little soft selling with your underlying message, don't buy PS3. Nice try. PS3 is vastly superior to Xbox 360, so why would you invest in an Xbox if you’re already a PS2 owner. If you wanted to play your PS2 games you just keep your PS2 player and save the money on the PS3. But the last thing you want is for anyone to know that, as that might encourage them to buy a PS3. Do us a favour and sell your BS on the Xbox website, loser

I approve a lower price. :)
and as someone else said id like to see more ram.

and as yet another person stated taht sony tests the water to much. i aggree.

i played one of their online games for a while. i left because every few months they would dramatically change the combat dynamics,
truth is this company has no idea what it wants. it wants money. but they have no solid plans. and just float in the wind. they borrow what they see selling in other markets and adapt it to suit them. and when it doesnt get them what they can. do go borrow some more :P

given the tech behind the Sony platystation 3 is great. but getting the system out there? i dont see a lot of that.

Dan,

First of all, I do have a good HD TV, it's a plasma Samsung 50" 1080P. Also, you might need to do some more research yourself. Not all the PS3 games even play at that resolution, in fact most of them do not. Most of them play at 720P and are upscaled the same as the 360. You also might want to do some research on actually how powerful the 2 units are. The GPU in the 360 is more powerful than the GPU in the PS3 which is what games depend on for graphics. The Cell, while it is powerful for certain tasks also has it's downfalls. And even with all it's power it does not make a game look any better, it is not powerful enough to render games, hence the GPU. Could you please explain how the 360 is out of date? What is wikapia? If you were referring to wikipedia, well, I am not going to comment if you honestly think that is a reliable source of information.

Jane,

I am sorry my "argument is so stupider and full of holes" and thanks for the advice to "just shut up because your embarrassing", but I don't think I will take it. I didn't say the PS3 doesn't have as many games, I simply mentioned the library. The PS3 IMO doesn't have many good games that I would want to buy. You guys need to lay off of Sony's junk, all I did was compare the graphics of the two consoles, I didn't say PS3 graphics suck, I was simply stating facts. The ONLY thing I knocked the PS3 on was the library, which of course they will improve on you idiots, but I am not going to buy the damn thing until a decent amount of good games come out on it. And as far as the HD movie watching goes, I don't want to ruin the optical drive in the unit like prior consoles had happen.

Stop being blind fanboy's and pay attention to what you are reading.

I am not talking crap about the PS3, I am talking crap about the false information which is being perpetuated in this forum.

There are people saying that the 360 cannot display 1080P. You are wrong, it can. Do some research before you use your opinion as the truth.

Some set tops will accept 1080P from component cables so HDMI is not necessary depending on the television you own(which I think it's retarded to base your TV decision on something like that, it should have had HDMI all along).

Since it seems you guys don't really care to look up reliable comparisons of the two units and instead just listen to the fanboy fodder that gets batted around I will post some links for you guys. All you have to do is either copy and paste them or click the link and it will open a page for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6171831/index.html
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6162742/p-2.html

Cell Performance Comparison
http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/11/playstation-3-performance/

General Comparison (kind of old but the hardware is basically the same)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=758390

Now if you guys will, stop smoking Sony's member, and lets be honest here for a minute.

TODAY (since MS isn't selling RROD consoles anymore) you should really base your console purchase on the game library IE. exclusive games, and price. I personally wouldn't base it on BD or HD-DVD because I will not be watching movies on either unit for fear the drive would fail faster.

I am not saying the PS3 sucks, I am just saying I would not buy it until more games are released on it that will not be on the 360. Otherwise, the graphics are so close you generally can't tell the difference(some time in favor of the PS3 but more times than not the 360).

This is a forum of types..a little bit of candid discussion is allowed isn't it. I can own both systems if I want..most likely will. But I always look at price/value. Why would I personally want to invest in a system I would get no use from...you may be different. But the amount of emotion you guys invest in a cold piece of hardware is hillarious! What benefit do you get from your chest pounding. I'm a hardware enthusiast and I like to talk about price/value and have no illusional emotional investment like you. Your games will come out..nobody but Sony is going to stop that. lol.

As the loss of profits continue...

Sony can't keep this up, and the losses from selling PS3 is going to start to affect the investor's confidence in the company. As the frist non-Japanese to take over a major Japanese comapny, Stringer is walking a mighty tight rope. If PS3 get's it butt handed to it for the holiday season, massive changes will be imminent.

I just now read the REST of the comments...lol..how old are some of you guys 12?? I guess when you don't have anything better to do with your time you fret over insignificant things. FYI I own Nintendo, SNES, PS1,PS2,Dreamcast,gaming PC, Gamecube...and I have my sights set on PS3 and XBOX. I'm a gamer. Don't try to cover up for the fact you can't afford'em all..hug your PS3 and give it a little kiss. When I was young I remember that Sega vs. Nintendo bullsh*t...it's funny to you guys cry so much about the same thing, grow up..lol.

I agree, I never said the PS3 sucks, never said I wouldn't buy one. I just won't buy one yet. Until there are more games that I like, the price comes down a litte more, and they give me a reason to buy it(once again, games or something of that sort). I like the PS3, I have played the PS3 many times, and it's fun, I just am not going to spend my money on one yet because the 360 has more games I would rather play. BD isn't a selling point for me simple because of my past experience with watching movies on consoles, it wears the drive faster than I would like, so I will just get a player when I feel it's the right time. That's all, you guys need to try to look at things objectively and TRY not to be so damn blind and biased.

too bad consoles can't match PC gaming, why not just build a gaming pc people??? lets see:
ps3/360 hdtv (required for "HD GAMING" lol.)= ~1500$

DIY Computer Monitor = 1500$ (AND YOU GET BETTER GRAPHICS, GAMES, MODS, COMMUNITY, CUSTOMIZATION, REAL GAMES?..)
i'm sorry i just don't understand why people debate over consoles...so funny. good luck with the battle! xD

I like consoles over PC gaming for ONE reason. I can have a bunch of friends over and we can all sit there and play games together hassle free. Halo, GOW, fighting games etc. Other than that I agree.

Are you guys going to respond? Or are we done?

Its funny, people just seam to blurt out figures and facts thats just makes them look like noobs.
I don’t own either but i know my hardware since its my job.
PS3 5 times more powerful?? Last time i looked the processing power was 1.5 Tflops for the 360 and 2 Tflops for the PS3 hardly 5 times.
Yes the cell maybe for powerful but it means nothing when developers can not code for it.... (hence the new EA 2008 series of sports games run way better on the 360 double the frame rate actually because its too hard and expensive to write the game to use the cell efficiently but in time will get better)

Aww yeah the 360 does have backwards compatibility not sure why you think its none, and im not sure if you actually read anything on the 40GB model but here in Australia it comes with ZERO backwards compatibility software and hardware has been removed.
aww yeah the 360 the last time i looked does 1080p the older models needed an update to do so but the new HDMI models do it fine.
I think you’re the one that needs to stop embarrassing yourself :)

IMO the ps3 will be the better machine in a year or two when it can be fully utilized but may be too late by then....

my bad too many windows opened my apologies

If hardware is your profession you shood know bettre. The CPU capasity of the Xenon in the Xbox is around 115GFlops, NOT 1,5Tflop, not even close. The Capasity of the Cell is around 250Gflops, around twice as god. The problem here is that 90% of the capasity of the Xenon is in the VMX piplines that addresses externaly. The same is teoretical true fore the cell, the main diffrens is that the matrix piplines in integral to the CPU structure.

The diffrense here is that ether thro the teoretical diffrance is only 2 times, the practical diffrance is close to 10 times becase the Xenon programer can (and do) choes to not use the VMX piplens while the Cell programer cant.
The ~1TFlops offen talkt about is the numer for the wole system inkluding the GPU, the GPU speed fore the Xbox is around 900Gflops and for ten PS3 around 1800Gflops, around tvice the GPU speed.

The Xbox 360 is NOT backwards compatible att all, insted the have to download a recompiled exicutable file for the 360 using the same raw data DVD, but reding the exe file from the harddrive.
360 does not render the picture in 1080p it render it ini 1080i and interpoliate it to 1080p, in moste games (i.e. Halo 3) it render it in 720p and interpoliate it to 1080p.

...

Aussie Bob, I guess you've been told. It's never a good idea to try to come off as a pro when your a moron. I won't say who they are but they tend to always be on the defence. Most of us can hear the Xbox and HD DVD fanboy crap I'm sure.

Toshiba Working With Microsoft On New Entertainment Xbox
By David Richards | Friday | 19/10/2007


Microsoft, according to insiders at Toshiba owner of the HD DVD patents, claim that Microsoft is working on a brand new Xbox that will incorporate not only a new HD DVD drive but a large hard drive and new entertainment software that is a spin off from its struggling media centre offering.
The device is being developed in response to the PS3 driving sales of games software and Blu-ray content in several countries. A recent Sony Brand Wave study conducted in five countries including the UK, Australia, France Germany and Spain revealed that a key reason that consumers are buying a PS3 is because it includes a Blu-ray player.

Recent GFK research reveals that the recently launched Xbox 360 HD DVD attach player is not selling well. Another factor that impacted early sales of the Xbox 360 was that Microsoft failed to include a HDMI port - omitted because Microsoft wanted to cut down the costs of the console in an effort to compete up against the PS3.

The new Xbox device, while allowing for extensive gaming capability, will be positioned as an entertainment hub that includes gaming and extensive wireless networking capability as well as 1080p playback. There is also talk of it including a dual HD TV tuner and EPG capability and a docking port for an MP3 player. For Toshiba, the device is critical if it is to be successful in beating Sony and the Blu-ray promoters.

Also being discussed is the development of an open standard docking port similar to the 17 pin iPod port. This would allow all manufacturers to use the same port for docking.

Sharp has sold out of all its Blu-ray player stock with its current promotion that gives customers eight free Blu-ray movies via redemption with every BD-HP20X Blu-ray player sold from 1 October to 31 December 2007.

DAMON PREPARED TO TAKE ON BOURNE IDENTITY AGAIN
Matt Damon indicated Wednesday that he would make another Bourne sequel if only to express his gratitude. In an interview in Tokyo with the French news agency Agence France Presse, Damon said, "Personally, the character means a lot to me because the character has done so much for my career. You know, it put me in the position where I have a lot more choices of kind of movies I want to make." He said that if director Paul Greengrass asked him to take on the character again, "then I would do it, as long as it was released on Blu-ray. ... I don't think either of us completely put the character to bed yet."

A couple of points. You speak of power of the Cell in the PS3, well programmers do not have to program using all available SPE's on the Cell. And it's very likely they won't because the more they program for the more difficult.

Also, it has already been proven that the RSX in the PS3 is LESS powerful than Xenos. Just look the comparisons up.
Here is one link which is an article with links the the articles in which the information was derived.

http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/1066963-1.html

The format wars are reaching its peak, with companies on both sides forging exclusive alliances supporting a particular format. This struggle for supremacy is taking a new front every single day. The end result seems to be taking a huge toll on the actual consumers of the products for they remain undecided as to which format to support.

The Blu-ray has always had a significant edge over its competitor because of Sony’s PS3, and since Microsoft and Sony can’t really be buddies they had to go ahead and support HD-DVD although there was a slight hitch. The PS3 came bundled with a Blu-ray player whereas you needed to buy a HD-DVD to add to the 360.

This pattern may however significantly change with this recent comment to Smarthouse made by Browning, a prominent figure in the Australian CE marketing field. He has not ruled out the possibility of a 360 coming bundled with an inbuilt HD-DVD player.

“The fact that movie houses like Paramount are behind the HD DVD format along with the likes of Universal and DreamWorks is key. I believe that more content providers will get behind the format and that the likes of Microsoft which is a big supporter of the HD DVD format will bring out an Xbox with a built in HD DVD player. This is a given.”
Although he has given no time frame for this move to occur, I feel this can be sooner than expected. The 360 is growing in numbers and an inbuilt HD-DVD will solve the problem of storage which next generation games are facing when it comes to the 360.

Assassin’s Creed and UT III are classic examples of this dilemma. Developers of both games felt that the content they had created was seemingly larger than a DVD and they were facing obstacles to fit all the content into a miniature disc.

Microsoft on the other hand had made a comment couple of months ago that they would go ahead and support that particular format that the consumers are going in for. So a Blu-ray fitted Xbox 360 cannot be ruled out of the question as well.

Maybe you should check your information a little more closely. Whereas not all games support 1080P for the Xbox360, and are interpolated up to that. Most new games coming out do support true 1080P. Guitar Heroes II, Lost Planet, The 2K8 series of sports games, just to name a few. I have a ps3, xbox360 and a wii and I can tell you that depending on your TV some things look very good on the PS3 and others look very good on the Xbox360. The fact that your spelling and inability to use the correct terms for the varying parts of the console systems does not lend credence to your statements. When you were talking about the 'Xenon' chip for the 360, I assumed you were talking about the CPU until someone else brought up the Xenos core. To top it off, the name of the grapics component in the PS3 is called the RSX chip, it is not all powered by the Cell CPU. I'll take my games any way I can get them. Right now, since the Xbox360 has rumble, is easier to program for, hence I get better graphics, I will buy multi-platform releases on the Xbox360. Now, Ratchet and Clank Future is a game I am anxiously awaiting for the PS3 and I can't wait for it! But that being said, I am also awaiting Mass Effect for the Xbox360. This holiday season will be tough... Rock Band, GH3, Conan (I know, not very good, but come on, it's CONAN!!!), Jericho (you know you want to scare yourself silly playing this :P), and many others. The fact of the matter is this. You made the decision to purchase what you have purchased, and in the United States and many other Countries in the world you have the right to say what you wish, and express your opinion to the world. The problem is, just because you can say what you want, doesn't mean you should attack others for their choices. I seem to recall this in another period of time that I will not discuss here. The answer is simple. Both machines have strengths and weaknesses. Utilize the strengths of the machine you have, and minimize its weaknesses as best you can. And above all, enjoy the games you play, otherwise, what good is it to have the console in the first place?

The benchmarks you posted are running PPC code. The cell processor uses a PPC processor to hand off code to the 8 synergistic processors. Without the synergistic processors, a Cell is slow.

Quoting a cell benchmark that is based on PPC is like saying that a N02 burning Corvette is slow because it will only run 2 MPH when running on the starter motor.

I previously owned an Xbox (not an Xbox 360). However, that was stolen and I currently only own my old Sega Dreamcast until I can determine what system I will buy in addition to a Wii which I know I want.

Understood, the PS3 cell only has 7 spe's. Also game programmers don't have to program games to use every spe. And in reality, only 4 or 5 of the 7 can be used for games. The ones not used are dedicated to other tasks.

I do agree that comparing how well Cell runs ppc code is not fair though, I will retract that.

I noticed a number of people in here keep pointing out "FLOPS". It seems to me that most people stating the power of Cell by stating the number of GFLOPS that it can do don't really understand how insignificant FLOPS are to gaming. FLOPS are floating point operartion and the Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games. The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit. The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU.

Once again, I am not saying the PS3 sucks, I will buy one when the games I want to play are released. I am not saying the Cell(BE) sucks, just that it would be best suited in something other than a gaming machine. The system would work very well for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but it's not the best solution for games.

PS3 is a universal player. As soon as you get that, you’ill understand its value and why the cell processor was the best choice for the PS3. All I can say is it is a really well built versatile consol, built at a very high quality. I just can't believe really that people will be able to by one for $100.00 less than the Xbox Elite as of Nove. 2, 2007. It's no wonder that it was announced today that Microsoft and Toshiba are planning to release a new Xbox next year that will include an internal HD DVD drive which they claim needs to be more than a gaming machine. They have obviously realized that Sony got it right, and now have to find a way to compete.

Wendy, I never negated the fact that the PS3 plays movies and games. That is very true and a good feature for most people that own 1080P tv's. I don't care to play movies on a console because of the decreased life of the drive installed in the console. I would rather buy a standalone than have the drive fail prematurely.

Universal player.... hmmm. What is supposed to be used for? Movies and playing video games right? If any standalone HD-DVD player of BD player can play movies with a simple DSP, then Cell is overkill for that purpose. What the hell do you think computers have been doing all this time? My computer can play games and movies at 1080P without cell. The PS3 doesn't need cell for this. Sony pushed Cell on people, it isn't needed for this console. In the beginning they thought cell would be powerful enough to run games and not need a gpu... but it didn't work that way.

I don't think you really understand what I am saying, you might want to go back and read some of my other posts. I never said it was a POS, or a bad gaming machine. I was simply correcting all the FUD that has been spewed by Sony fanboy's. You guys just spit out arbitrary numbers and have NO idea what you are talking about.

Cell does XXX Gflops.... SO? WTF does that have to do with playing a game? Very little. RSX is 2 times more powerful than the 360 GPU.... WRONG. Go educate yourselves and stop presenting your retarded opinions as a fact.

Use one name....quit using multiple names. Wendy...my goodness.

Im on the fence for xbox 360 and ps3 among others.

For some reason it IS offending that sony took away the backwards compatiblity to play PSone and PS2 games for a lower price tag. Is this like a Crazy Larry's car dealer ship haggling with us?



I sit with an option of lower price tag with an option to buy a used cheaper PS2 around $90 .. still too close 499 for playing all titles.

Sony, it would have really helped your sales a whole lot more if you didnt want to be a stingy biatch about it. Honestly people do not care much about 20-80gb models. Read our reviews as proof and check out the Wii (which has no real HardDrive) sales!

I predict Wii and Xbox360 will still be mopping the floor this 2007 season.

You talk about the power of the GPU's. Ok, NEITHER of the GPU's come close to 1teraflop. The RSX actually has worse floating point performance than the Xenos. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS.

But as I already said, Floating Point performance is not the best way to determine performance, best way is to bench some games and see how they perform using 3rd party apps.

Now, to the CPU you FUD spreader. When physically only 155.5 GFLOP’s were actually achieved with a total efficiency rate of 75.9%. Because of manufacturing yield issues, the PS3 will only use 7 SPE’s with the theoretical peak for the PS3’s Cell processor being reduced to 176 GFLOP’s, each running at 25.12 GFLOP’s. Utilizing the same 75.9% efficiency, it is easily interpolated that the PS3’s Cell CPU will only be capable of 133.6 GFLOP’s. The PS3 will also constantly reserve 1 SPE** for running its operating system. Now that there is actually one less SPE reserved for gaming purposes, it is definite that the ps3’s cell will only be capable of 114.4 GFLOP’s for the purpose of game processing. The Xbox 360 has 3 general-purpose 2-threaded CPU's, which generates a proven 115.2 GFLOP’s which is dramatically easier for developers to utilize.

Now, what does all of this mean? It really only means you guys need to do some research and stop spreading false information and lies.

What does it mean about which is the better console? Nothing, they both play games very well, and the developers will eventually squeeze every ounce of power out of these machines. I would not count on one ever being noticeable better than the other BD or not. They are both excellent consoles, my advice would be to buy which one suits your needs, buy the one with the games you want, and whatever fits in your budget.

You need to learn all about PS3 if you going to lecture on it. It's clear you’re trying to find fault where there is none, really. This thing will likely out live me. You have to own won to truly get the whole picture I guess. If you want to talk about prematurely wearing out I would suggest you turn your attention to the Xbox 360. I have friends who are on their 4th one in less than 18 months. In terms of quality, reliability and performance PS3 is the absolute best. Now that they’ve come down in price you may be able to save up for one by next Christmas. You make a lot of assumptions and assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.

I wasn't talking about the console, I was speaking of the drives in the consoles which has been known to be a problem. I has happened in the past when people used the drives to watch movies all the time.

I am not making assumptions either. What I did do is I stated the facts, plain and simple. If you read back through my posts it should be very clear as to what my agenda is. Many people in here are spreading 100% false information about both consoles, that's right, BOTH. I never said the PS3 was inferior to the 360 when it comes to the final product. I just wanted to clear up all the fanboy lies that I have found in here. The data I posted can be found in many places, just look around before you start spreading lies as truth.

I was not trying to find fault, I am simply squashing the stupid console lies for both consoles. The fact of the matter is the 360 GPU is the better of the two. How much better? Who knows, it will take a while to prove that one. As far as the CPU's, the PS3 cpu is a very powerful cpu in a few tasks such as folding@home. These RISC cpu's are very good at certain things, but in a PC it would be a waste of money. The fact is, neither console has the best choice for a gaming CPU. They should have stuck an AMD64 or Core 2 in them(to bad Core wasn't out). These out of order chips would be much better suited to handle gaming tasks and have much better branch prediction.

The PS3 will not outlive anyone.... are you kidding? Sure, you might have it for a long time, but to assume that it will be powerful enough to run games that come out a couple of years from now, or even next year at max settings is simple false. Sure, they will continue to run games, but they will not have the visuals that the PC's have. It just doesn't work that way in the console world. The GPU's in BOTH systems will hold them back, and the lack of memory in the PS3 will hold it back.

As far as 360 reliability, I do believe MS has taken care of that issue so that point is pretty much moot now.

FOR THE FINAL TIME..... I WAS ONLY CLEARING UP THE FANBOY LIES..... THAT IS ALL. YOU GUYS ARE BLINDED BY THE HYPE AND DON'T WANT TO EXCEPT THE TRUTH. I NEVER SAID THAT THE PS3 SUCKS. I HAVE SPENT MY FAIR SHARE OF TIME PLAYING ON ONE AND PLAN TO BUY ONE WHEN THE GAME LIBRARY WARRANTS IT. CAPISCE??!!

I have obviously given criticism where it's due, like the 360 not having a hd-dvd built in. The failure rate is atrocious. I never tried to deny that. Mine has worked fine since I bought it, but I own the elite so it should over heat. I just don't understand why you guys(Sony Fanboy's) cannot take the smallest amount of criticism when it comes to the PS3. I wasn't even saying bad things about it, I was only posting factual information. It really isn't my problem if you perceive the facts about the PS3 as something negative. Maybe you should look within.

I don't doubt the reliability of the PS3, all of my friends with them have had 0 failures. Performance, as of right now each console has it's strengths. The PS3 and the 360 are pretty darn close, they trade blows in the performance arena, but the 360 wins most of the battles. It's so close though that you wouldn't notice the difference.

Maybe you should talk to Sony Wes, They don't agree. I also don't agree. I've seen Xbox game play and I thought it looked Cheep and Arcady. I didn't get a sense that the Xbox was in anyway close to the PS3. Sorry that's my opinion. PS3 is truly, and vastly superior to Xbox, hands down! If that wasn't true why is Microsoft going to replace it in the next 12 months. I think they see the writing on the wall that the PS3 is going to surpass the Xbox in sales very quickly just like they did with HD DVD. There is always some game lag when a new system is introduced, but now that the games are starting to arrive it will move like crazy this and next holiday season. Wait till you see Grand Turismo HD Halo 3 was good for Xbox but Grand Turismo HD has years of replay ability instead of 8 hours. A much much better value!

You should stop trying to cinvince yourself that you bought a machine as good as the PS3 when you bought your Xbox, you really didn't. I have several friends that used to have the Xbox 360 that sold it a bought a PS3 and they don't agree with you either.

I've been waiting for them to drop the price on the PS3, and no, this does not count. I want them to keep the same feature set and just drop the price, not yank out a couple pieces of silicon and then say here's a dumbed down cheaper PS3 for you. Ideally I want the 60GB version feature set, but I'll take for the 80gb version feature set. If only they would stop selling it for half a grand.

This is not a price drop; it's a new model no different than the way Microsoft has done it except the red ring of death isn't free. You can still get all the previous features on the 60GB and 80GB models. They cost $449 for 60GB and $499 for the 80GB, now that’s an instant price drop as those models were $649.99. Something tells me you’re not going to buy no matter what as you’re already invested in Xbox. I guess you’re pissed at Sony because you couldn't afford the original PS3 at $699. You no this machine used to cost $840.00 to make, so why should they sell it as though it's a cheap piece of crap like the Xbox 360. Just pick up a PS3 and an Xbox and you can tell right away. You’re going to have to buy a new player any how because of Microsoft’s short sightedness. Microsoft’s going to replace the 360 in the next 12 to 18 months. Apparently it will have an internal HD DVD drive in it. I don't think this will help as the HD DVD drive will still be a weakness as it still only has a max of 30HD capacity compared to 100GB for the Blu-ray drive. Not to mention, it's generally not supported. Technically Xbox already has an HD DVD drive that doesn’t sell. Microsoft is going to have to learn the hard way again. Let’s see if you’re stupid enough to make the same mistake twice. My money is on yes.

I wonder will you be reading this with a clear mind or you think my post is gonna say something bad about PS3 as soon as you see the title that addresses to you...

Pure fanatic is so scary, by seeing how blindlessly you are when defending PS3 without actually reading what people are ACTUALLY saying.

Halo3 has years of play time ahead of it.... multiplayer. I am not saying the graphics are going to be good as GT's will be.... but the game play is good with multiplayer... which is why the game is so popular.

I really don't care what Sony or MS claim are the facts. BOTH companies make false representations, I look at third party reviews. They were both very sly when hyping the units.

I can also make the my friends comparison also. I have friends that have all three units, and the graphics are close to the same on the two. Give me a break. I present solid facts to you and you say that your friends say x y and z. I give you links to screen shots of games to back up my claims and you give me opinion. I told you what my opinion was, and you STILL don't seem to get it. It's called reading comprehension.

I told you that I was going to buy a PS3 when games are out that I want to play on it. The only game that I wanted to play on the PS3 that wasn't on the 360 was Resistance, and it was a great game. It just doesn't have the multiplayer that Halo has.

You obviously don't understand how to refute facts and evidence, you should never try to debate anything when your well being depends on it. If you can find some FACTS, reviews, or something along those lines disputing what I have been saying then go for it. Otherwise, stop wasting my time with your opinion, it has VERY little relevance to what I have been saying.

your opinion has very little impact on the debate unless you can find some relevant facts to back it up. Just wanted to say that opinion does matter only if it has some type of factual base. So far, you have introduced NO facts or anything to back up your claims.

First of all, I don't have an xbox 360 and never said that I did.

Second of all I can afford both but am actually smart enough NOT to throw my money away because Sony and Microsoft say that I should buy their crap.

You go on and on about how the PS3 is better but you forget that:

that 1) most people are not the tech savvy, do not go for the bleeding edge of technology, and can care less that Bluray can hold 10 more GB per layer than HD-DVD.

that 2) The PS3 is the most expensive console with the least enticing portfolio of available games.

that 3) At the rate the PS3 is selling, it takes Sony several months to sell the same number of PS3's as Microsoft or Nintendo sells Xbox360s and Wiis.

wes, stop responding to what I post. I have no respect for you because I truly think your retarded. No shit, Retarded! How dose that grab you? You wouldn’t know the facts if they came up and bit you.

I am commenting back to Wendy, not you. You guys post nothing but opinion.... no facts. I can tell you guys don't really even care about facts either. I post links to a bunch of different reviews and sites, yet you guys only respond with opinion...... nothing at all to back it up. Why bother responding to me if you cannot back up your claims? Go pound sand.

360 is 1080p
Ps3 can push more polies , but is so hard to develop for its pushing about the same as 360.

Now the real weakness graphicly the PS3 has is dynamic lighting is a generation back from 360's.

The two CPUS have around the same processes both can do six the PS3 excels a little more in CPU power due to the process being Async vs sync of the 360. Technically the 360 can do 6 processes per cycl so can the PS3. However, the PS3 can activate 6 each anf not waste a cycle. A 360 must activate two at a time this can cause wasted cycles.

These are facts not opinions.

Very nice.... thanks for something worth READING! I like how you posted something other than opinion. Maybe you could teach some of the other posters how to do that......

You guy's are full of shit! Trying to compare a PS3 with an Xbox is like trying to compare a Corvette to a Honda Civic. PS3 is that much better. There's no use quoting specifications to 2 morons who don't understand the first thing about Electrical Engineering or Computer Science. Rambling off a bunch of Specifications (you called facts) doesn’t mean anything. You’re efforts to manipulate and give misinformation is very miss guided.

The Xbox is 1080i not 1080p and the PS3 is 1080p/24/60. wes and CB don't know anything.

Both of you have no idea what I do and do not know.

John, the 360 does 1080P and has been doing it for a while. If you look, there are 1080P native games on both consoles.

Jerri...

Care to debate this topic and back it up with benchmarks, reviews, and cold hard facts? So far not one idiotic fanboy has provided anything but personal attacks showing their own true lack of knowledge and intelligence. Rather than call me a moron, why don't you try to find the information that refutes my claims? I am not talking about a forum either. Why don't you, lets say, look at a reputable hardware review site? I am done here, you guys are nothing more than ignorant trolls who can't even back up what you claim to be true. All I wanted to do was correct some misrepresentations and all the little fangirls come jumping all over me. Once again.... GO POUND SAND!

1. (opinion) I don't think that laser life is as much of an issue as it was. Laser diodes are getting better. If you let a movie run 24/7 it might be an issue.

2. The SPUs of a PS-3 are not just good at floating point. They can be used for many things.

3. FLOPS are a useless way to measure performance. what takes one operation on platform A could take 4 or 5 on platform B.

You were correct as to the number of SPU's available on the PS-3. I have just started playing with writing software for the Cell platform. I must say that it is a great deal of fun. It would be (Will be) a blast to optimize the Linux version of Povray to take advantage of the Cell.

It makes me wish that Apple had not switched over to the Intel architecture. PPC OS-X would run Cell out of the box, and over time you could optimize it to take advantage of the SPU's one function at a time.

I agree that you are probably right about watching movies, won't find out for another year or two though.

I agree that the DSP's (SPE's) can be used for many other things, I was merely trying to invoke some though out of people. They were sitting there stating the FLOPS (floating point) that the Cell could do (albeit the numbers were not even correct) and they didn't even know what the hell it had to do with gaming. Of course it can do many other things... and POVray should be one thing it does fairly well. I think being able to do in game ray tracing on a large scale will take some time to get down though. Sony should really help out with that in order to get it optimized properly.

I know cell is a powerful chip in scientific areas... .very powerful in fact. But would the RISC Uarch perform well on daily tasks with branchy code?

Thanks for the post man.... they obviously cannot comprehend a word that I was saying. I was trying to point out that FLOPS didn't really matter for the purpose of the consoles.... and that the numbers they were posting were wrong anyway. I was also trying to let them know I wasn't a PS3 hater, I aim to own one in the near future when some more games come out that I want to play.

Thanks again.

Hi, What is the fuss about here?? From the comments I've been reading there are generally 3 types of posters here: immature, know-it-alls and fanboys. Or a combination thereof. There are a few voices of reason, definitely in the minority.
I haven't bought a system yet... but I have (almost) made up my mind.
xbox360 = doesn't have all the accessories such as wifi, HD player, browser,key&mouse support, BUT better game portfolio (presently). Newer board has rid it itself of most overheating issues (hopefully!)
PS3 = slightly more expensive and seriously lacking a game portfolio. BUT free online gaming, slightly better hardware, and built-in HD player.

I know that I haven;t covered all the options/bases but I think superior hardware is useless if there is no decent/abundance of software!!
In my opinion if anyone here hasn't purchased a system yet but can only a afford one, at the present moment should get a 360 unless there is a game they are dying to have which is only available on the ps3.

I do hope that Sony picks up their "game". Competition is good. But pickering and scaring off (maybe?) other potential buyers is NOT. Debating is good but bashing each others comments?! BTW, spelling on the forums is atrocious. Grammar is one thing but spelling mistakes on simple words?

Frankly I may just up my budget and get a decent gaming desktop :)

I have been said that multiple times. I said anyone should just buy the console that suits them with either games or price.

All of the posts about the specs were just to clear up the FUD being spread. The two consoles are pretty damn close to each other when games are compared. Each one has strengths and weaknesses, but they are so close that as far as game quality that you probably won't notice a difference between the two.

I said multiple times that I was going to purchase a PS3 now, and kept getting attacked when I tried to counter the lies being spread by the fanboys.... that is all I was doing.