it not like the HDD peripheral for a core model is expensive or hard to find, i don't see how this negatively impacts anyone

I think the most painful aspect of this is knowing that you can shop and put any size HDD in a PS3, but M$ is forcing "proprietary" HDDs of ridiculously low capacity on all X360 users, With HD downloads available everyone's HDD is already full, and the exorbitant prices M$ charges for the HDD can't fly. The only good news is that even with purchasing a bigger HDD you are still paying the same as a PS3, the bad news is you still haven't paid for an HD-DVD drive.

Should put extra emphasis on how it is ONLY microsoft who feels the need to blur the line as every other console manufacturer has a simple plug and play system with no needed or really optional accessories (besides various controllers).

MS chided Sony for including everything on their console, all while screwing their customers in the meantime.

Choice? More like "You'll have a choice to buy more of our hardware tack ons or not play certain games"...

Most owners of the 360 already paid 399 for their system with a 20GB drive and probably bought a HD DVD player for $179 7 a Live subscription for $50 and now their making them have to buy a 120GB HD!!! The 360's base price just surpassed what they would have paid for a PS3. I'm Glad I paid my $499 for a 60GB PS3 instead of a price tag of $800 tax for a 360 with almost the same stuff. I say almost as current systems people own still lack HDMI :(

The PS3's drive is easily upgradeable without having to pay the huge amounts of cash MS wants. Along with that The PS3 is gaining speed with its slew of new titles and nice packages. Currently you can get a PS3 for $349 at their Sony store with a Sony CC... and with that you can get 5 free Blu Ray movies making the bundle worth even more...

I now own a PS3 & sold the 360! MS is getting to pricey, and is steering its ship the wrong way.

I do give them credit for fixing current broken systems, but who wants to be out their system for over 2 weeks?

you know, I want to like the xbox, I really do. I am a PC gamer, and I have nothing against microsoft. i swear. But when they do stuff like this I can't help but to think what a better value the PS3 is-- I will stick to the pc for microsoft games.

I can't remember the last time I say a core system for sale. Seems after the Elite was released they seemed to have disappeared. Considering the recent price drop I wonder if Microsoft is phasing them out.

I've heard alot of MS backers put down the
PS3 for being over priced. But when you add
on the noisy HD-DVD drive on a 360, it's higher priced than a PS3. If that wasn't enough, where
are all the high quality games for the 360??? It's
been on the market for 2 years and there is only
about 5 quality games for it.

PS3 owners shouldn't knock the 360 for a lack of quality games.

The 360 is certainly more expensive than the PS3 when you start adding all that extra hardware. And the games. See, on the 360, there are actually games that people would want to play. That gets expensive.

but why is it that every sony fan boy wants to include the HD-DVD player. I and many more like me have 0 interest in playing movies via my console. That's where the beef with Sony comes in. You can argue the $280 price tag plus $180 for the 120GB HD or $450 for the elite but don't tack on the HD-DVD player because most don't care about that.

Oh and just another point. What happened with the Sony 40 GB system that didn't include everything... Oh that's right sony just dropped it off the map like it never existed. $ony = M$ = Companies only out of the max $$.

"But when you add on the noisy HD-DVD drive on a 360..."

I'm pretty sure most 360 owners do not purchase the HD-DVD drive. It is a completely option accessory.

The reason you can say the PS3 is over priced is because if you use the system as just a video game console, then HD-DVD and Blu-Ray aren't needed at all.

$250 - Wii - Great Price
$350 - XBox 360 - So-so Price
$530 - XBox 360 HD-DVD - Overpriced
$600 - PS3 - Overpriced

I'm glad Microsoft will start letting developers use the hard drive. Personally I think anyone who didn't get one with a hard drive was an idiot to begin with.

I think this will lead to cheaper addon hard drives though, at least for the 20GB. If developers start requiring it, they'll drop the price so Core owners can play the games.

I bought an Elite though. Quite happy with my purchase. And there's far more than 5 good games on the 360. I may not want them all since they don't appeal to me, but that doesn't make them bad games.

I love the PS3, I really do, the lack of interesting software development has made Sony buckle down and start paying companies for early releases on games, and has also made Sony reach out to younger, yet promising development companies for fresh and innovative titles.

That being said, its funny how the main criticisms come from companies who develop a game on the 360 first, and then have to port it to PS3, whereas developers like Epic Games say they are achieving more physics and AI wise, and also post-processing like Depth of Field, HDR and other things the cell is very good at, at much less of a cost on resources than on the 360, they have also said that their next game UT3 will have much better graphics than their previous blockbuster Gears of War, on BOTH systems, so much for "PS3 can't handle games with graphics like GoW".

One gaming magazine who was commenting on a previous Beta that they were sent, said the graphics were better than GoW.

Blue-ray players are so expensive these days so how come people aren't complaining about it? Blue-ray moves like 300 just so happen to be flying off the shelves.

In other news, there are low priced $500 blue-ray players that even include a hard drive, wireless control, network, cell processor, wifi, web browser - you know... extra stuff you won't find on a regular $1,000 player. Not only will it play movies, but also the latest PS3 and PS2 games. Heck, you can even load different operating system on it and do other stuff.

So if you want a super blue-ray player that does much more than that, then the PS3 is the way to go. It's really really cheap. Heck, for all I know a HE SLI video card, notebook and CPUs cost more a PS3.

Now, does anyone really think the PS3 is overpriced?

I've long abandoned PC gaming. Too many updates, new drivers, Windows upgrade/service packs, new video card, new hard drive, faster CPU - not to mention system and driver conflicts. Now that gets really expensive.

The external wireless network interface card is expansive for the XBox 360 as well.

There is not much great games in the first year for the XBox 360 as well. Though, there are more FPS and the ramp up of great games are fast for it.

Using the HDD as a means to speed up and create more choices in development is great. Just don't leave those with core system. And maybe a drop in price o 20GB HDD?

Of this "Wireless" crap, knock it off? If I hear one more person complain about that I'm going to let loose, most people do NOT use that, most people do NOT have a wireless router laying around on which they game, so just drop it.

People... seriously. This is not written in stone.
MS said, 'go ahead and do it. BUT, you will restrict who can purchase/play your game.'

And, as we all know, developers are in it for max profit so they are not going to create games that will chew up hard drive space.

I do love the PS3 fan boys... you don't get options with your system - you're just stuck with the price tag. What's that? You can swap out hard drives? Wow. I guess you have me there. And I seriously hope your online network has improved cuz I'll gladly pay $50 a year to have XBOX LIVE with minimal lag.

Why does everyone think that the blue ray drive is only for movies? Games are getting bigger and some is surpassing the 9GB limit a DVD offers, those games will be released out on PS3 blue-ray game disks. Games like GTA 4 is massive, they basically had to chop the game to fit on a DVD, thanks to the DVD limits on the Xbox 360.
And when the news dropped that the game had to be shrunk. Ms quickly signed a deal to release more episodes on Xbox live (for a price, however).

Can you really trust what MS is saying right now. In a few months they will probably make the HD DVD drive a necessity. Always remember MS does things for the now, Sony does things for the future.

What a bunch of cry babies. You cheaped out on the core model and now you MIGHT have to buy a hard drive and you cry? I guess you shouldn't have been such a cheapo and you wouldn't have this problem *shrug* It's not like the premium model is expensive.

As far as the PS3 comparison's, it's still not even close. There are a majority of us out there who do not even own an HDTV, so the fact that PS3 comes with Blueray is meaningless, I want to play games on my console, not watch movies (wow, what an idea). The ps3 is not overpriced if you are in need of a blue Ray player, other than that, it is ridiculously overpriced.

So you bought a xBox and you were told it's the greatest machine ever... but u do realize that you got AK all over ya.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/a72022/developer-applauds-ps3-blu-ray-discs.html

Psssst! I didn't write those either.


MS's strategic objective was to beat PS3 to market so they could build up market share and trash the PS3 when it came out. This meant they had to cut corners to make it a cheap firebox. They were laughing all the way to the bank when Sony had to delay the PS3 to make it as good as possible.

But the firebox didn't blow up a lot of houses either. It appeared the shabby construction caused many fire hazard units to fail long before they could raze the house. As I know it so far... only one toddler was killed.

You'll find the offending material here:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Xbox-Kills-Infant-Microsoft-and-Wal-mart-Sued-55740.shtml

and here:

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/users_report_xbox_360_crashing_like_mad/

Last I checked Sony made the 60GB model with built in wireless and card readers the same price as the 20GB model (not 40GB) making it an even better deal for the budget or core system. So I don’t see why people would care if the 20GB fell off the map…

--------------

MS lacks wireless options making cables all over peoples homes all the time. But the fact that there PS3 comes with it is a perk… no worry for wires if you can get one there. Making it another Win for the PS3… I know about 12 guys with 360’s and about 10 of them have purchased the wireless add on.

The 360 with all its add-on’s looks like an octopus PS3 all built in.

---------------

64% of gamers own a HDTV which is a big chunk of the market no matter how you put it. And with HD growing daily HD features are going to be something everyone wants. Just wait for the sales charts during the holiday season...

Also 20GB HD on the Premium will not be enough for what MS is allowing dev's to tap into. 30GB will be the max, minus MS install crap your 20GB drive is only 14GB now :( If you want any of the cool games MS or other companies make for DL it will cost you the game and the 120GB HD.

Also most people are loving the idea of a media center, with Netflix offering downloadable movies it is a path everyone will take so Blu ray players or even Blu ray playability is a huge thing. Sony is also going to be adding TV features to its system which will be a huge score.

With MS you will need a PC with Media Center to port your movies over, or you can be happy with the over priced limited movies and TV shows they offer.

The 360 has been on the market for over two years
now , and only around 5 quality games for it not including
sports games. You can praise MS all you want, but your only
sending a fools blessing..............

I do have a wireless router, and I bet most ppl that owns a notebook has one at home too, so, wireless is a plus for the system... How much does it cost to add wireless to a 360??

I do own a PS3, but why? cuz I've sold my 360 and bought one. Yes, 360 have great games but I was sick of the 3RLOD (red light of death - 4 times in 18 months does change your mind) and the annoying noise of the console.

About the PSN.. It's a great place and I can play games without lag here (2mb DSL) in Brazil.

Blu-ray vs. DVD.. Several third party game companies said that the Blu-ray disk is a better thing to work with than the DVD. UT3 is one example. The 360 version is said to come out with less maps than the PS3 version.
Link to a XBox 360 forum.. talking about UT3 360 vs UT3 PS3
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EElZkplFVELBeEvPWg.php

You people make me sick and for the last time the PS3 is NOT OVERPRICED. You are ignorant.

It's $1,400 for a QX6850 gaming CPU but wait... you'll also need two hi-speed 150GB Raptor X @ $199 each (one HD for the OS and the other HD for games). And wait, yet again, your really going to need a powerful video card. You can get the Nvidia 8800 Ultra 384-bit 768MB DDR3 PCI express 16 for only $800. A motherboard will cost you $200 and if you really want a blue-ray drive for your gaming PC.... mmmmmhhhhh, that will cost you.... just buy a PS3.. it's cheaper!

Or just go to alienware and buy a $20,000 gaming PC.

seriously do you know anyone who would waste their money on such a PC? if you can't build a gaming rig that can bring you about 900x more fun than owning a PS3 for $600 then there's something wrong with you.

hands down, in volume, games, fun, whatever, the PC dominates the video game market.
and yes, that does include all the little flash game sites, as they are video games, and the people who play them are gamers.
^Attack of the Show backed.

For so few games and features, the PS3 is very overpriced.

The 360 is overpriced in a way most (including myself when I made the purchase) aren't aware of. The price of a live subscription. If you want to play games with your friend, you have to pay $50/year, which, for a four year lifespan comes out to $200. On top of the (now) $350 sticker price, that makes it more expensive than the $500 PS3.

I've since moved to PS3 from PC gaming. I hate installing and having games not being able to work - and bugs too... patch this, patch that... and you have to get new drivers for your hardware. As newer games come out, they bog down. You have to get a faster CPU but it's all in the video card. Of course, the motherboard may not support these new devices - so you had to upgrade that too and don't forget ram - and the more ram you have, the better. Even at 2GB, Supreme Commander kept crashing because it needed more ram. I'm tired of being taken for a ride.

With consoles, you don't have to worry about all that stuff - perhaps a update firmware to add new features one in a while.

My PS3 is an investment - I buy games and they work. I don't have to shop around for CPUs, OS, memory or motherboard. But unlike the xbox, I will add a bigger and faster hard drive - thanks Sony!!!

So far, I've taken out 'Fall of Man' and I'm stuck deep in the jungles of Oblivion IV - help! You also get 5 free BR movies which makes PS3 even cheaper ($399).

Lair looks real good and Heavenly Sword will keep me busy until GTA 4 arrives. Meanwhile, Assassin's creed should keep me tied up and I might just try Motorstorm if ever I get around to it.

Anyway, I don't really care for lots of titles. I rather have a few good games. It's not that I don't like xbox - I don't like Microsoft. Come on, you can't even add your own hard drive.

There are so many amazing games coming like: Haze, Alan Wake, Killzone, Warhawk, Grand turismo, Crysis and many, many more. I've only picked out a few of the ones that I like but it's a lot.

The good thing is I can't play all those great games at once, so while I continue to enjoy the ones I do have, these new titles will emerge just in time to play them.

I do work people and I do have a life too - I can't just play video games all day you know.

I will not get into a discussion on why the XBOX is better then the PS3

I have nothing against it. i will eventually get one as soon as the prices drop (next year)

BUT i did not want to be forced to choose side in a format war that i could careless for.

i will pick one when theres a winner.

as for my xbox .... while ill be playing more games then i could handle this holiday season (bioshock, mass effect, halo) just to name a few EXCLUSIVES. You dorks will be using your $600 gaming machine to watch movies .. ha ha

and BTW read the reviews for Bioshock ... its AMAZING

sorry PS3 fan geeks it only coming to XBOX360

i win, you LOSE

and one more thing Madden on 360 is WAY better then on PS3

why the hell would i get a 360 when i can play all the good games a year later on my pc, ps3 games are EXCLUSIVE meaning i can ONLY play them on ps3 and with warhawk, heavenly sword, and lair coming out in the next few weeks im gonna love my ps3 even more. halo 3 and gears of war i can guarantee will be on my pc within a year so 360 is pointless

I think everybody here has a PC... so xbox is quite irrelevant. Between PS and a PC you'll have a universe games til kingdom comes.

I didn't realize that there was a war going go... almost getting my head blown off too. And while they may exist, not that I've read it - but so far I've never heard a wii fan bash the PS3 - probably too busy wii-ing to care. Everything just seems to come from the x-fans. WOW!!!

Amazing reviews are just other people's opinion - it doesn't mean the game is any good - we all know that because we all have different taste.

If I'm not mistaken, Bioshock is coming to the PC as well.

And by the way... the PS2 is still the undisputed king of consoles and that's a fact.

What were you thinking????

http://www.psu.com/BioShock-for-the-PS3-Confirmed,-Yet-Again-News--a1012-p0.php

All I know is this... I didn't pay a lot for my PS3. I got my 50" Samsung with dual HDMI ports from CC (and it was cheaper than BB) and I used my 5% reward card. In all, I got over $500 in rewards (including a free 8GB Sansa MP3/video player worth $199).

So even if I spent a little over $200 for my PS3 - it's the best darn deal I've ever made. Oh, I do own a Wii, by the way. It was the only way to keep the kids off from my PS3.

Word be said.

wait for MGS4 and all those bioschock being a killer app will all be some form of hallucination

people that keep saying that console is better than pc are generally poor,stupid(console is a pc) and have never had a top notch pc.

how is it possible that a computer with 2x and more processing power, in both cpu and gpu, and way more ram, is less powerful than a piece of tech designed in 2004.

and dont start talking about xbox360 is for the community,and for friends, because everything the xbox 360 has, the pc has had since 95, voice support, clans, ladders....most console owners don't even know what ladders are HA.

but whatever, if you have a console ,fine , but dont start talking about how its better than pc, when it is a pc, just smaller , cheaper and less powerful,

There are two reasons a console performs beter then a pc for games.

1. The OS, consoles don't use M$ windows, they have a smaller OS without all the background tasks, multitasking, ect. Windows is a bloated "desktop" OS it incudes everything you want/don't want

2. The developers know what hardware is being run and can tweek the game for it, on the PC it depends on your hardware what options to use. Some vid cards are beter at shading some at aa, ect.

There is no comparison the console hardware may be the same but the OS is the key. A crappy OS=SLOW GAME or M$ Shit = Vista.

what are you talking about ?
it doesn't matter if developers know exactly what type of systems their game is going to run on , an then they tweak it for it. most of the tweaking is done because the system doesn't have enough memory, so they have to find ways to program more effeciently (e.g. gears of war, only gives you access to small portions of the level at any given time, but you dont notice unless you try going back to pick up a gun you left, only to find that a wall has caved in, or a gate has now been closed.)

with pc, the developers don't have to figure out how to fit an elephant in a telephone booth , all they do is give a system requirement on the box.

but still, consoles have WAY more games out, but my pc has the most dedicated multiplayer users , when was the last time you were easily able to find a bunch of peole on Live to play , an old xbox title other than, halo2 or battlefield ?

but with pc, you can still find tons of people still playing the ORIGINAL GHOST RECON.

agreed pc much better than console, which is a controdiction console is a PC, its the services that can be stopped on a PC that your crying about? get educated before you speak about it.