Chicago (IL) – IBM has been granted a patent to a technology, which could allow users to expand system memory via an external box.  

 

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Images of IBM's external RAM box ...

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IBM is pitching the invention as a technology that could provide a cheaper and more flexible way to temporarily upgrade the available memory in computing systems ranging from PDAs to servers. According to the description of the patent, the technology includes three separate parts - a connector, a container to hold RAM as well as a cable that couples the connector to the container.

IBM says that the connector can be inserted into a DRAM slot just like a common memory module, allowing the memory installed in the external box to be addressed by the motherboard as another bank or DRAM. When there is no external RAM module plugged in, no memory is recognized by the motherboard's memory addressing unit, the patent claims.

IBM does not describe the invention as a replacement for typical memory upgrades, but as an option to increase the available memory temporarily and allow users to share RAM upgrades, simply by switching the module from one computer to another – especially in devices where RAM is not easily accessible, such as notebooks. According to the patent, the RAM box can provide up to four memory slots for every DRAM slot within a PC case.

It was unclear which type of cabling IBM intends to use for connecting the connector with the external box.

IBM has not announced an actual product that makes use of this technology.

Interesting Idea

Jun 12, 2007 16:49     

n/t
Spikke report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Uhh...

Jun 12, 2007 18:20     

This is useful... how?
Ulwithy report abuse vote down vote up Votes: -1

Doesn't make sense...

Jun 12, 2007 18:39     

I know in the past for servers they use riser cards to expand the memory but why have as an external box? Who knows, maybe somebody at IBM hope to capitalize on the idea of "managed" memory systems for several machines. Just hope they provide enough bandwidth through the cables and realiblity to make this work. Darkk
Darkk report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

You can..

Jun 12, 2007 18:44     

You can have 16 1GB DDR sticks rather than 4 4GB sticks, thats a huge amount of savings in terms of money.
Just some dude report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Isn't this just like the gigabyte I-ram?

Jun 12, 2007 18:46     

Isn't this just like the gigabyte I-ram?
Andrew report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

usefull:

Jun 12, 2007 19:04     

Its used to obtain more then what normaly would be possible: example: Using 64bit OS, the max memory is "infinitate" while using a 32bit OS its not. Thus on a 32bit (Xp for example) the maximum memory you can have is 3G. For a 64bit, thats not the problem. HOWEVER. If you only have 2 ram slots, and have a 64bit OS, that means at most, you can have is 4-8GB (2x2 or 2x4), by using this "E(xternal)RAM", it would effecively allow you to have enough memory to utilize the capacity of a 64bit OS. such as CAD, graphics, etc... So yes, it does have a use.

Joz report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Perhaps you can..

Jun 12, 2007 19:38     

With what joz mentioned above, perhaps its possible to stack the external boxes to get hundreds of GBs of ram simultaneously. But the performance gain if there is any would be highly limited by the bandwidth.
Just some dude report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Not sure the patent will hold up

Jun 12, 2007 20:10     

Considering we did this on the Mac and the Amiga back in 1989/90 time frame.
Scott Beckstead report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

No, this is not like the Gigabyte I-RAM!!

Jun 12, 2007 20:12     

Far from it! The I-RAM is used as an ultra quick hard drive, or page disk. It cannot be used as a memory expansion, but it uses DDR memory for fast access and storage. This concept actually expands the on board memory via 1 memory slot, but then, to use this device with say 4GB per slot, would mean your mobo would be able to support it. I just think there will be too many losses in the cable connection. Keeping the device in a drive bay would be more appropriate, and with a shorter, shielded cable.

Ward report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Expandability see previous reply

Jun 12, 2007 20:26     

if you note from previous toms hardware guides cpu and gpu have much larger impacts on performance at least if you have balls.
catman report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

I would use it

Jun 12, 2007 20:27     

Use for tech applications, and repair situations. andrew: the iRam is actually storage, not for use as regular ram. another interesting idea, would you be able to put an e-ram stick into a different e-ram box, to extend the total memory, or even make a loop?
just a reply report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Transmitter Engineer

Jun 12, 2007 20:28     

Wonder how long it will be till they sue everyone with any kind of external memory format, wanting a bite out of the sales.
SDBud report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

swap file on a usb drive?

Jun 12, 2007 21:04     

The interface had better be much faster than average through put of a usb drive (20MBS) and almost as inexpensive.
whr report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Just what I need hanging out of my notebook...

Jun 12, 2007 21:31     

I'd like to know what market this serves? Who "shares a chunk of RAM" between machines? And wouldn't that RAM need to still be compatible with the motherboard (type/capacity)? This isn't really a "killer" feature that mobo makers would pay a license fee for.
Rob report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Rehash

Jun 12, 2007 21:39     

If IBM would start using the faster Ztec bubble/fibertech memory, they could put 100GB RAM inside a tower with no problem!
Jim The Computer Man report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Price, Performance, Portability, Sales

Jun 12, 2007 22:17     

Perhaps, your computer at work is slow and your company won't buy you a faster one. Maybe, you use a friends computer on occasion, you visit the folks/siblings, or you fix computers for a living and visit many different clients/users. It could also be used on a docking station for a laptop, or if you work in retail, it is a possible sales tool to show potential customers how much faster their computer would be if they purchased additional memory. In any of these situations, it would be very useful to have this device, and it would cost much less than upgrading each machine individually. For these reasons and for ones that I may have missed, I think IBM is correct in their assumption that there is a potential market for this product. Any more ideas?

br4nd0n report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Chialstar Group Ltd. (china)

Jun 12, 2007 22:32     

Chialstar Group Ltd of Shenzhen China is a CHEATER. Never trust them! They are so nice until they get your business and your money;After that: they are total jerks! They will rip you off. Never get Motherboard, Cartridges, VGA cards, ETC anything from them unles you want your peace of mind to be damaged..
Victom report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

External RAM, external hdds and just recently exter...

Jun 12, 2007 22:54     

External RAM, external hdds and just recently external video cards... how about an external motherboard? You could add an extra motherboard to your PC! I'm going to the patent office tomorrow...
Frederic report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Memory access latency and path traces

Jun 12, 2007 23:38     

I'm not an electrical engineer, just a tech for a living, but if you run traces that long without a repeater on something as low voltage and timing sensitive as RAM, you are going to have issues. Even with a repeater you will have latency issues. With slower memory, it is possible, but I wonder how viable it is with memory touching on 1GHz now? It makes me wonder if this is nothing more than a "I patented it so you can't use it" case.

Electronics Tech report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

admin of www.tkc-community.net

Jun 13, 2007 00:36     

I used to make my own printed circut borads for my ATARI 8-bit 64K RAM computers back in 1983 to use 1MB of RAM....but used the srl prt as the conector befor the "internet" came along. Long live Radio Free Venice BBS...the voice of the free world! Bigest and fastest "BBS" of it's day. Z
ZOldDude report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

me agian.... "useful:"

Jun 13, 2007 00:42     

re: Electronics Tech" thats not the point, this is probaly marketed away from gamers and other people who need low-latency memory, and more towards people who just need LOTS of Memory.
Joz report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Prior Art

Jun 13, 2007 00:58     

I'm not sure what's being patented here, but there is definitely a case for prior art if they are trying to patent the idea of external DRAM modules. We used to use a very old DEC VAX system with an external DRAM module. The module was bigger than an old VCR and only held a few megabytes, but it was still an external DRAM module. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Scott report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Speed???

Jun 13, 2007 01:03     

I wonder if the performance is good
JP report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

more modularity

Jun 13, 2007 01:37     

I would really like if they would make the systems more modular. Like if you would have: 1. a board for CPU 2. a board or several for PCI/PCIe slots 3. a board with the north bridge 4. a board with the south bridge And so on. Why? I know it doesn’t make sense for servers or workstations but if you think about computers that don’t need too much processing power it would be great. You could assemble how you wish the parts like lego. Finally I would be far less constrained on the form my PC can have and the designs for PC will really go wild. Now you have to respect the squareness of the motherboard when designing a case. I think IBM idea is in the right direction. But they could go even further getting reed of the standard memory connector and make a smaller one in length. Maybe use fiber optics to keep the latency low… But I doubt the manufacturers listen anyhow… With the PCIe external connector I think this will be possible but getting read of the standard motherboard will be the hardest step. And I think the only way is to use HT links. If I’m not wrong there is a version of HT that is cable format but I’m not sure.

d report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

RAM > eRAM >> HDD

Jun 13, 2007 01:53     

The question isn't whether this will be faster or slower than "proper" RAM, but rather mow much faster it'll be than even the fastest HDD in a system. Using this approach instead of swapping to a HDD should lead to some pretty impressive speed improvements in processes which have need for more memory then is currently installed. If a process is limited by disk swapping, then a 3-fold increase in bandwidth over HDD whould basically speed up the process by a factor of 2-3. Not bad I would say. This will be a niche product, but it might be of some use.

Shane report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Electronics Tech, that is exactly what i was thinki...

Jun 13, 2007 03:10     

Electronics Tech, that is exactly what i was thinking when i first looked at that little blue and white sketch. IBM has gone ahead and, as another commenter said above too, sealed the idea in a little external box, to prevent anyone else from touching it...sigh... The reasons for their being a market are all valid, but i still have my doubts in terms of compatibility. wait and see?
Also just a tech report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Why not have...

Jun 13, 2007 03:57     

Why not just have an external computer, Have all the components outside the box and leave the box empty lol
Petes report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Frederic, can I bum a ride?

Jun 13, 2007 04:31     

I need to patent the External CPU™ and the External PSU™ before someone else does. I'll be able to convince all the customers at the local Best Buy how much better life will be if they upgrade from that $300 eMachines to the $3500 quad-core with the 1200W power supply and eight gigs of RAM via live demonstration. Ooh - and I'd better patent the External Component Box Heatsink™ so I can gouge Thermaltake on licensing fees. This could be a lucrative business move. So, whaddaya say? I'll toss in five bucks for gas.

Gord report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Patent on old idea?!

Jun 13, 2007 04:41     

Extend memory externaly? New idea? I don't think so. I remember my Amaiga 1000 had external memory expantion. So did the Amstrad computers, The Commodore 64/128...and a host of other computers back in the early days. My Amiga 1000 even had the "Sidecar". A PC expansion so that i could run PC applications through the Amiga....not ON....but though. I wonder what is so new and revolutionary in the idea that IBM has that has granted them there patent?

Widriksen report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

And don't forget the possibility of external CPU..

Jun 13, 2007 04:50     

As title
CK report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +1

Just like the Sinclair ZX80

Jun 13, 2007 04:54     

Of course the ZX80 (in 1980) had an external RAM pack of only 16kb. And the connector was wobbly. I suppose that makes all the difference.
Terry Browning report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

ZX81 RAM Pack?

Jun 13, 2007 05:04     

Does this remind anyone else of the RAM Packs that where available for the ZX81 & Spectrum, crashing the machines with the infamous RAM Pack wobble - or am I showing my age?
Rupert report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

in linux is simpler

Jun 13, 2007 06:20     

- add a 1GB USB pendrive, format it with linux swap FS - swapon the partition with high priority: swapon -p 32500 /dev/sda1 - greatly increase swapiness: echo /proc/sys/vm/swappiness >98 'et vuala', linux uses 1gb USB pendrive as a high priority 'secundary ram' for storing 'not inmediately used program pages' and uses main RAM for the running code...
f5inet report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Patents are for suing, not protecting

Jun 13, 2007 07:00     

Patents have'nt really been about protecting innovation for some time now. They have instead evolved into the foundation for lawsuits. Patent something with potential, wait a few years, initiate lawsuits against those who are using things similar to your patent. There are companies who do nothing but buy patent rights and then go looking for lawsuits, many of which are settled out of court because it's cheaper than going to trial.

EE Engineer report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Patent will be found invalid...

Jun 13, 2007 07:51     

under non-obviousness. A person having ordinary skill in the art of computer hardware could easily see the obviousness of this technology.
John Doebler report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

wireless memory box

Jun 13, 2007 08:10     

i have a better idea. NO CABLES!! make the external box hold memory that transmits and recieves memory chunks. Imagine several relatively nearby computers that have low amounts of physical RAM sharing what could be several gigs all wiressly.
AMD report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

External Motherboard you say?

Jun 13, 2007 08:25     

Personally, I like the idea of a more modular computer design. Between work and home I jump between 4 computers. Very rarely am I ever on more than 1 at a time. I'd love to be able to take a chunk of memory and video card and take it along with my external HD for long trips so I can get similar performance from my laptop as i do from my desktop.
Dylan report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Totally sensible.

Jun 13, 2007 08:48     

I don't know why you guys are all downing this idea, I think it's totally wise. Let's say average joe schlong who doesn't know dick about what's inside his computer. Why teach him what he doesn't need to know? A simple cartridge type thing that he plugs into his PC (plug in the back, or a compartment in the front, whatever) is a helluva lot easier than explaining how to open his PC and install RAM modules normally. Yes, we did use similar methods in the old days on Amigas and what not, but Apple have since moved away from that plan and likely didn't patent it, Commodore went bankrupt... who's gonna challenge the patent?

Carcenomy report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

No Way!

Jun 13, 2007 08:59     

No way is this ever gonna be a product. With memory bus speeds so high and latencies so low, adding a connector that long, as well as a secondary memory controller would absolutely KILL your memory throughput and latency. I work with this kind of stuff, and I will be amazed if this ever goes to market. Although it could be used if you needed a huge, slow, memory system. except then what you really need is a motherboard with FB-DIMM capability.(FB-DIMM can support, like, 192 GB of memory per motherboard)

JehC report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Why stop there?

Jun 13, 2007 09:08     

Hey why dont we just have everything external? Our computers will turn into multiple large lego-like blocks on our desks with a tangle of wires interconnecting. Or maybe not. On a different note, I have a feeling the bandwidth of this external RAM will be governed by the laws of physics (Electronic latency), and therefore be somewhat limited substantially in comparison to what would commonly be found in the RAM market today. It'd be nice to throw another couple of gig in when the system starts to run under load, but at to what cost of the already existing RAM? Unless they give an exlusive slot, the RAM bus itself would have to slow down for the external add-on. Wouldn't be that much of an issue if you had say Dual CH DDR mobo with only 1 stick in there... You could use the other channel at a slower frequency to support the E-RAM, provided that mobo manufacturers develop such support.

Litch report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

ANOTHER STUPID PATENT?

Jun 13, 2007 09:14     

how about I network my ram and allow every other computer to use it, a quasi virtualization thingamajig... oh wait that has been done before. be the next to patent an extender cable that take something out of the box and puts it next to the box, be the inventor of the super modular... "box-thing", think Lego. wait how about I just plug 2 computers together and... no wait that been done before. FFS reform the patent office so only innovations get patents. be the first to patent place something that was outside the box into the box and getting rid of a cable, like a scanner and printer.

coldmast report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

could be good...

Jun 13, 2007 09:23     

this could be a great idea, if you could attatch it to more than one pc... (eg stuff it between four cubicles that are close togeather and 4 pc's share some 16 gigs of ram or more... my only question though, is wouldn't it be very slow because it's far away from the proc? has to travel all the way over the cable... it would put your latency times up i'd immagine but it would sell because if all that stuff isn't adressed by your mobo, then your mobo would just show it as normal... and how are they going to make this work with amd chips? because amd has an integrated memory controller and as far as i'm aware intel is trying to do the same... or maybe good for lan parties... or thoes game shack places... cost savings for a howies game shack would be phenominal with 4 hook ups, if the box itself doesn't cost a fortune

nachowarrior report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Physics, Einstein and the limit of distance.

Jun 13, 2007 09:38     

The speed of light is ~300 million meters/second... If one was to totally ignore the DRAM chip's latencies, a DRAM chip running at 500MHz must be less than 60cm from the memory controller itself. c x (1 / DRAM_HZ) = Absolute limit in meter 300E6 x (1 / 500E6) = 0.60 If you were to include the latency timings internal of the actual external DRAM chip you would have severely limited bandwidth as DRAM clocks would have to be limited depending on the size of the cable that connected it to the PC. As such it seems that it could only be intened for the low-end market, unless IBM can overcome that, but if that happens I think Ol' Albert Einstein will roll over in his grave. Superconductors are a long way off from being intergrated into our PC's. Maybe a viable solution in the future, but I think in the mean time IBM's just holding it for themselves.

Litch report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

It's not another gigabyte I-RAM

Jun 13, 2007 09:49     

Gigabyte's I-RAM uses DRAM as harddisk, while this product provides the flexibility of expansion to memory system ;-)
RV report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Prior Art

Jun 13, 2007 09:56     

This sounds a lot like the expansion pack on the Sinclair computer back in the late 70s early 80s..
kk report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

box = 5.25" drive bay

Jun 13, 2007 10:05     

where this would be helpful make the box fit into a 5.25" drive bay load it up with a tonne of cheap ram have the cable/dongle thingy hang out the back and plug into a ram slot on the motherboard i can see this being useful
Rhab report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Similar to TI-99/4A

Jun 13, 2007 11:00     

It seems similar to what I had with my Texas Instruments 99/4a computer many many years ago. It might fall under the 'notheing new under the sun' type phrase. It seems like a variation on it. http://www.99er.net
TomLeeM report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

This is far from new technology

Jun 13, 2007 12:04     

Being a rather ancient user of technology (and a user of ancient technology too)gives you the lucky stroke of having been around for a while. This is in no way new tech. I have used this type of thing on the (barely noticed now) Timex Sinclair machines, in the form of a rear mounted "plug in box", and my old PDA (an original Handspring Visor-still in service)uses a similar technology via the backup module being left in place...so I don't see what all the fanfare is about...except maybe the old phrase "What was old, is new again" being put into practice.

Michael T report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Yes it is an I Ram

Jun 13, 2007 12:56     

The new I-RAM prototype is an external box, containing memory, that's attached to the motherboard via a cable. If you put your pagefile on it, it is available as memory. It's never going to be fast. This must be a joke patent or something because it's such a bad idea on so many levels: latency, bandwidth, prior art, etc.
goose report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

This would be unusably slow

Jun 13, 2007 14:58     

Litch is correct, though actually the speed of electricity is around 2/3 of the speed of light so the cable-length situation is even worse. Regardless of how short you make the cable, the fact that this plugs into a memory slot means that you can't combine external internal ram unless ALL memory runs at the super-high latency of the external. That means you can't have Internal -> External -> iram as some people have suggested, but just really slow internal ram. Add to this the lack of market for people who temporarily need to add gigabytes to a computer (come on, can you think of a reason?), and the invention is pointless.

ozyman report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Surely no original

Jun 13, 2007 20:39     

This idea goes back to the piggyback ram extensions available for things like the Sinclair Spectrum and the commodore Vic20. The circuitry has changed but the basic idea is the same.
Efros report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

originality is not completely required

Jun 14, 2007 00:25     

it would be difficult to patent the concept of external, rather the patent would be around a specific way of doing it. there are a lot of patents concerning compression algorithms most are purely about how to build the dictionary. same task, different method = new patent
roadhog report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Makes sense on some levels.

Jun 14, 2007 05:17     

Seems odd that they'd only come up with a plan like this after selling off their PC division... But on a consumer level, this is a fantastic idea. Home users who don't know jack about computers shouldn't be expected to know how to manipulate memory - having RAM that just plugs in is a fantastic idea for such people.
Carcenomy report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

IT Manager

Jun 14, 2007 05:23     

I am an IT Manager and I actually think is a great idea like hot swappable HDDs. Probably most of u don't know that IBM has a line of servers with hot swappable RAMs. The problem is that the server is still in the rack and u have still to open the box, so even if is it hot swappable u still need to take out the server and open it. It happened with one of our DL380, 1 memory bank broke out, so we needed to shut down the server several times, for diagnosis, trials and (as the part was not promptly ready), one last time to finally change it (because in the meantime the server was working anyway whith the other banks). With such a solution, like a scsi drive, u just slid out the broken bank and put the new one. I think that for edp room environment is very useful!

Stefano report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Signal Speed

Jun 14, 2007 05:46     

Electromagnetic signals propagate at light speed and not at the speed that electrons move on the wire, which is much slower.
José Morais report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

ref: why stop there

Jun 14, 2007 08:31     

it's too late http://www.epiacenter.com/modules.php?name=Sections&sop=viewarticle&artid=60
EricW report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

PEB for the TI-99/4A?

Jun 14, 2007 09:23     

It is similar to the periphial expansion box for the Texas Instruments 99/4A. http://www.99er.net The PEB conncected externally and expandened more than just memory.
TomLeeM report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

HyperTransport or PCIe 2

Jun 14, 2007 09:47     

I would say that this would be even better for servers. You could make mobos with no RAM slots and 8 CPU sockets. I actually thought of this when I realized how nearly impossible it is to have 128GB RAM on one mobo. Even with 8GB chips, 16 slots just hits 128GB.
BaronMatrix report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

No imagination

Jun 14, 2007 13:08