Chicago (IL) – Perhaps AMD and Intel should not have abandoned the Gigahertz-race and bunsen-burner processors after all: Scientists from the University of Utah today said that they can convert waste heat into sound and electricity.

There soon may be a rather unusual method to cool down your overclocked rig: Physicist Orest Symko and his research team at the University of Utah said they succeeded in building small devices that turn heat into sound and then into electricity. The findings, which are part of a 5-year, $2 million project to develop “tiny thermo-acoustic refrigerators”, will be presented at the annual meeting of the Acoustical Society of America this Friday.

According to Symko, most of the heat-to-electricity acoustic devices are housed in cylinder-shaped "resonators" that fit in the palm of a hand. Each cylinder, or resonator, contains a "stack" of material with a large surface area – such as metal or plastic plates, or fibers made of glass, cotton or steel wool – placed between a cold heat exchanger and a hot heat exchanger.

When heat is injected, the heat builds to a threshold and moving air produces sound. The sound is then converted into electricity by using "piezoelectric" devices that are squeezed in response to pressure, including sound waves, and change that pressure into electrical current. Only about 20% of the sound energy is lost when pressure is converted to electricity, Symko said.

 

So, how efficient is the conversion of waste heat into electricity overall? Symko said that the efficiency depends on its application and temperature differences – the higher the difference between a source heat and the temperature within the cylinder, the greater the efficiency. He believes the technology can be about 20 – 25% efficient initially, with greater efficiencies to be reached down the road, depending on the application. However, he told TG Daily that the technology could enable solar cells, which are up to 40% efficient in high-end applications and typically reach efficiencies of less than 20% in mass market products, to bump efficiencies to more than 50%.

For microprocessors, the technology could be used as a supporting cooling technology: Ironically, the technology increases its efficiency with greater temperatures – the hotter a processor the more sense the energy conversion technology makes.    

An obvious concern of the technology would be noise: Symko said that the technology can produce very loud sounds “to impress people.” However, noise can be shielded and become a non-issue, he told us. The scientists are also working on ultrasonic devices that would eliminate any noise for the human ear.

Symko plans to test the devices within a year to produce electricity from waste heat at a military radar facility and at the university’s hot-water-generating plant. Within two years, the physicist believes that the devices could be used as an alternative to solar cells for converting sunlight into electricity and as a new way to generate electricity from heat that now is released from nuclear power plant cooling towers.

Of course, there cooling of server, desktop and laptop computers is another application for the technology: Symko told us that a thermo-acoustic cooling device for a computer could cost about $100 to $200, when it goes into production.

cool but inpracticalou in

Jun 04, 2007 17:41     

you probably wont see any of this soon this efficiency is not surprisingly high but what do you expect also getting this device would cost more than it could save you in in the middle run
derek report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Great, so I won't hear it...

Jun 04, 2007 18:42     

...but my dog will run away.
PRMan report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Makes sense, yet the percent effciency is rather ba...

Jun 04, 2007 18:45     

Makes sense, yet the percent effciency is rather bad. Yeah to add to the dude before...you would save a ton if you just buy a Thermalright 120 extreme...people are always like what's the best? im like look around morons...everyone is asking that...we say the same time over and over agian..
Pat report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Postman

Jun 04, 2007 18:47     

Yet another interesting step into the future.
Postman report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Very misleading title

Jun 04, 2007 18:49     

"convert processor heat back to electricity"? No, not yet. Symko is speculating that might happen.
steve report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

wow exellent for laptops anybody?

Jun 04, 2007 18:55     

nothing much to say except for the title
Ken report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Not bad percentages for lab run

Jun 04, 2007 19:04     

A 20% conversion efficiency isn't all that bad for the initial proof of concept in a lab for heat source generated electricity. That's far higher than solars had early on, so it encourages further development. I question the conversion of sound to elec percentage. That would mean that 80% of the sound is muffled simply by conversion to electricty (or the energy conversion isn't the stated "only 20% loss" at that stage). Waste heat is probably a bigger contributor to global warming than C02. Being able to recycle even some when you get to large industrial installations would be beneficial. The pc benefit is a nice possiblity, but the real benefit's in the big scale. If it works.

Jim L report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Ultrasonic, eh?

Jun 04, 2007 19:12     

I am sure people will be surprised when their dogs dogs start freaking out.
Leo report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Re: cool but inpracticalou in

Jun 04, 2007 19:14     

Why do you say it's not cost effective? You get a WaterCooler, wasting energy to cool down your PC. With this device you are GENERATING energy from your PC/House/Car/what ever you might think that generates heat to anything that needs electricity. How can this be impractical? Add this device on the lower of every single solar panel and you add more energy. Add this device to your internal combustion motor of your SUV and generate energy for charging the batteries of the electrical motor. Add this device to the High Power PSUs to give those an extra "boost" of energy when needed.. Several applications can be found if you just search for them. If it reaches the market I would buy it. I don't expect it to save me money on the short run, but in the long run (3 to 5 years, expecting a 10 years longevity for the item). It will be veeery interesting to see this developed into real life applications. And I think that parallelism with this device would be awesome. Imagine Google's servers with all their processors with this, how much money would they save just on their electricity bill? I would/will support this technology for sure.

Wateva report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Irrelevant for consumer at this time

Jun 04, 2007 19:14     

These products (piezoelectric material) are in use in many applications today one specific example is Navy Sonar domes. These efficiencies are not trivial when you consider a combustion engine is something along the lines of 10 to 20 percent, depending on the application (Cars on average are about 20 percent). More importantly one application here could very well change the mechanism for refridgerators work. There is currently engineering prototypes and plenty of research to go from a compressor to a acoustic based system. Very low energy and much smaller dimensions in comparison to the current ccompressor systems. Tangent aside, the last paragraph would only be pertinent for critical electronics in areas such as industrial and military applications. But then again almost anything useful to the common man started off either making things easier or making it easier for us to kill our fellow man, necessity and profit are the mothers of invention.

RJ report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Thermo-Acustic Refrigeration!

Jun 04, 2007 19:15     

Doesn't that just SOUND snazy? In any case, You could use the excess energy to run a small fridge on your cpu, futher cooling it! Or maybe get it to power One of your graphics cards! I know I'd buy it!
Sean report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Misleading title?

Jun 04, 2007 19:26     

Steve, what is exactly misleading? The device has been built. Wolfgang
WGruener report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

This is at least as good as solar.

Jun 04, 2007 20:20     

The efficiency of this device, which is a claim, is around the same range as solar, so it's not inefficient by any means. With tweaking or a multi-mode application like the most efficient solar panels these days, it could be very efficient and very viable.
Graham report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

efficiencies

Jun 04, 2007 20:24     

First of all, Wateva spoke my mind out loud. Second, 20% really is pretty darn good for a prototype. In reality, the only machines that can get anywhere near 100% efficiency are failed attempts at perpetual motion devices, and that energy isn't so easily harnessed. 100% efficiency means that it creates enough power to power itself indefinitely. The existence of friction basically makes it impossible to achieve perpetual motion, and in electronics, a lot of energy is exerted as heat before it actually gets used. This will bring us one step closer to an energy efficient lifestyle, where regular laptops could potentially run for 12 hours at a time. Right now, only high-end ulta-portable laptops from Japan can accomplish this, and they aren't very powerful. While this technology may seem a bit out of reach and impractical, it could very well integrate itself into almost every aspect of our digital lives in the future. Remember, most of the useful everyday items used today started out as somewhat outlandish prototypes or luxuries that would not be practical for the everyman. The GUI based computer? The Apple Lisa from the 80's, $15K. A tad expensive? Yeah, but so was the Automobile before Henry Ford and the Model T.

waffle911 report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Not best for CPU's, but...

Jun 04, 2007 20:50     

20% efficiency for solar panels is pretty amazing. Any device that converts heat into electricity with low differentials (
mr_fnord report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Bravo

Jun 04, 2007 21:26     

There are so many things that generate heat, even with only a 20% return the benefits could be fantasic on a global basis. This is how we have to start thinking. The circle of energy!
1Slyfox report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

I'm all for it

Jun 04, 2007 21:41     

Yeah baby U of U. I'm actually going there in the fall of next year. This device will come down in price as it catches on. I'd like to see this integrated in many applications. It would help offset the inflation of energy costs for some time until they catch on and start charging more. This device has a lot of potential though so more power to it and I'm glad they are making such improvements to heated components. The closest thing you got to perpetual motion is a farmer. He exerts his energy for food and consumes his energy by eating the food he made. Live another day right?

addiktion report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

heh

Jun 04, 2007 21:54     

This is pretty good...I wonder though, if it will actually make it mainstream... And the efficiency...the human body is only about 30% efficient, only 30% actually goes into energy...the rest is released as body heat.
god1of1war report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

did you guys even read the article?

Jun 04, 2007 22:37     

20% loss - that's 80% efficient - that is outstanding. Additionally they are talking about being able to bump up the existing efficiency of solar cells BY 10%. That is unbelievably huge. Incredibly huge. On the comment on the refrigerator. That is interesting. But, if you use a device like this vs. the fin fans on the back (and you live in a cold climate) you are losing quite a bit of heat input to your house - which have to be made up from another source.

wesley mckenzie report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Okay Derek, nice comment.

Jun 04, 2007 22:46     

Derek, That comment of yours makes no sense - In the "middle run"? You just don't phrase things that way. 20-25% is also a huge percent of efficiency when you consider it in the following way, a 25% increase in performance on a 2.6GHZ Quad core Intel leaves you with 650MHZx4 which in cycles is the equivalent of another core. Obviously, it doesn't work out that way but let's say you had a CPU generating 100Watts of heat. 25watts removed from the thermal envelope would allow you to bump up the frequency. Let's say you get 266MHZ on a 2.4GHZ Quad core, that leaves you with a chip equivalent to a Quad Core extreme edition processor. Financially viable if the cooling device only cost $200 or less.

Darren report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Idiots...

Jun 04, 2007 23:14     

Why do people assume that really high frequencies will cause your dog to "freak out"? A frequency above our range of hearing isn't anything special... there are all sorts of devices that emit sound waves above the range of human hearing all the time. To a dog, this is just a sound within their normal range of hearing…nothing to special or freaky about that… Sorry for the off topic post/rant… cool device?

UWBandman report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

And combined with certain type of fusion, we have f...

Jun 04, 2007 23:35     

And combined with certain type of fusion, we have found all the energy we need? :-)
KoWe report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

The Future

Jun 04, 2007 23:49     

Not just this, but any research that leads us to a more environmentally conscious world. So, for those who can't see the potential benefits, just look where we are now. Are we recycling our heat now? Nope. Can it hurt? Nope. Are we doing anything about it? Nope. So are we in a position to judge? Nope. Anyone remember the first generation of energy-saving screw-in fluorescent bulbs? They sucked. Now 14W is brighter than 100W. I hope this technology comes out. $100 at first. 2 years later, $30 from Taiwan. :)

spanko report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

To exponentially Improve its output.

Jun 04, 2007 23:58     

Develop this as an alternative energy source. Stack large quantities in containers designed to trap heat. Maybe they could also be stacked inside walls, attics and any other part of a building which collects and traps heat. For sure this would help a lot of people a great deal, as there is always a much greater potential source of power from heat then direct sunlight, where there is any at all. Heck, with enough R & D this could become a permanent source, as it is conceivable to build a heat trap which can hold some heat from the sun through out the night. If I had excess money to invest, this is where it would go. Keep up the great work :) . If you use this idea, and it generates income, at least give me credit. Thanks.

JasonL report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

I like it aswell

Jun 05, 2007 00:12     

When you figure how much heat a computer makes look how much energy goes into cooling it. Getting a device to cool it that makes even a little energy is well worth it. After all how much energy does your fan make? I understand that it will take more power to run then it will make but so does a power supply. If you can get heat pipes that work well and have all heat moved to 1 of these from every device inside the computer it will have a better efficiency.

Yournotme report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Automotive Alternator Replacement

Jun 05, 2007 01:35     

the heat is already there being generated by the motor so why not use these to convert that into electricity to run the car instead of an alternator; the noise would not be much of a factor either.
brad report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +1

We need to hook this up to cars...

Jun 05, 2007 02:00     

Today's cars are at about 30% efficiency, most of the energy is lost to heat. With this technology we could have some awesome hybrid cars which still have awesome horsepower.
Glocaug report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +1

liek... Sci-Fi realm...

Jun 05, 2007 03:19     

Ok... So, there's a working prototype. But no power ratings were mentioned. No figures were released. Does it turn 60 Celsius into 500mA? Or into 5mA? Or does it need 80 Celsius and over to be of any use? Does it generate at room temperature? And what would happen if you put one in the freezer? Would it draw power? However, I do see the sense in filling a couple square kilometers of the desert with these things... Free power! They could even be buried just below the surface and still generate power. Much less of an eye-sore than a solar-panel farm.

teh_plankmeisterer report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

waste heat global warming

Jun 05, 2007 04:20     

waste heat has nothing to do w/ global warming. It's tiny compared to huge heat from sun.
jb report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

I wouldn't call it perpetual, or motion.

Jun 05, 2007 04:39     

"The closest thing you got to perpetual motion is a farmer. He exerts his energy for food and consumes his energy by eating the food he made. Live another day right?" This statement isn't really close at all. Toilet paper for his butt requires killing more and more trees, I doubt he plants many. The soil that he tills up isn't replenished completely, and much of it washes away. He's also using diesel for his tractors, and supplying food for lots of consumers who aren't really doing anything at all but wrecking the environment too. We're parasites upon a naturally-balanced earth. Until we seek to educate ourselves instead of just getting high and dealing with day to day life we're just going to continue reeking havoc on the planet. As for this technology, it sounds great, but new technologies (like 32nm processors) are reducing the amount of heat output all the time. The article suggests that Pentium 4's were on the right track...but it's far from the truth. You're still creating heat by burning coal. Real technology would develop solutions without byproducts. Sure using byproducts we have to do something else is a great thing, but it's not necessarily a solution. Just because scientists have found a way to reuse nuclear waste in a special reactor after converting the waste, doesn't mean they don't have to still destructively mine the uranium, or that there isn't still waste after the second use. Just like hybrid cars...there is still the problem of old batteries, spraying toxic paint into the air upon building the car, and all the metalurgy and crude oil refinement that goes into building all the components in the car. If you want a REAL solution, we need to reduce the number of kids we're having, educate the poor folks who are having the majority of the kids, and go back to riding horses. =P

John Doe report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Global-warming killer

Jun 05, 2007 04:47     

Imagine a huge field of these devices planted all over the equatorial area.
Breadfan report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Well don't tell the AI's about it or we'll soon be ...

Jun 05, 2007 06:22     

Well don't tell the AI's about it or we'll soon be plugged into the Matrix.
Isamu report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

reality check

Jun 05, 2007 06:35     

god1of1war, The krebs cycle is more than 70% efficient, not 30%. This story is just that, a "story". You could have learned about the use of piezoelectric devices to convert heat into electricity from any high school physics text book written 30 years ago! Piezoelectric device are solid state (No moving parts) and achieve efficiencies between 5-15% depending on the temperature differential between the hot and cold ends. All this guy is doing is adding a resonator tube (HAS moving parts) to get a few percentages of increased efficiency. Unfortunately, the added moving parts reduces reliability by several orders of magnitude AND increases manufacturing cost!

Jay report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Very Loud

Jun 05, 2007 07:52     

In one case, one of his grad students was able to create a device that was half the diameter of a penny and created a sounds level of 120 decibels. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070603225026.htm
Joshua report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Farmers are solar powered.

Jun 05, 2007 08:26     

Plants are, in effect, solar collectors. They take the energy of sunlight and use it to bind water and CO2 and trace elements from the soil to grow. The farmer then collects that material, and the energy it represents. The process is efficient enough that the farmer can not only feed himself for the next growing cycle, but feed others as well. To stay on topic, these acoustic coolers are interesting. Wonder if you could use them to replace a cars alternator, and thus increase milage?

kw report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Only work for a few min?

Jun 05, 2007 08:30     

"Symko said that the efficiency depends on its application and temperature differences – the higher the difference between a source heat and the temperature within the cylinder, the greater the efficiency." Doesn't this mean it would only cool and create electricity until the "temperature within the cylinder" reached the same temperature as what you were trying to cool? What am I missing here? Wouldn't the thing heat up after a few minutes and become useless? Don't get me wrong, I've always said if they could convert heat into electricity as a means to cool then we could drastically reduce the amount of energy we consume. This does sound cool (no pun intended).

Schrag4 report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

I wonder if it could actually be combined with a so...

Jun 05, 2007 08:55     

I wonder if it could actually be combined with a solar panel somehow. I'm sure that solar panels get pretty warm sitting in the sun all day. Throw one of these behind it and you've increased the efficiency a bit. Too bad that heat rises or it might be better, but I'm sure you'd get some like this.
Darmok report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Would probably not shut off after a few minutes

Jun 05, 2007 09:18     

You have to remember that energy is being removed by converting it into electricity and moving it elsewhere. This means that not all of the heat would make its way to the cooler half of the device. There would probably always be a temperature difference because of this. I know it's difficult to visualize. I had the same issue when I was trying to understand how refrigeration worked. In the case of refrigeration heat is being removed and vented somewhere away from what you want to cool. In this case heat is being removed by converting it to electricity. Would always be a temperature difference.

adobo76 report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

It's an anti-microphone!!

Jun 05, 2007 09:23     

Great!! This guy just spent $2 mil. to invent a microphone by reversing a speaker!!! Ever sing into a set of headphones? SAME thing.
Audiowhat? report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Put them in cars!

Jun 05, 2007 09:56     

Forget that; put them on hot headers in hybrid cars and have them charge the batteries.
Brandon report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +1

its not actual cooling

Jun 05, 2007 10:10     

its energy conversion. it changes heat to electricy. but in a very almost elegant way, by changing it to sound first. so while efficenecys could be gained, if you could remove the conversion from heat to sound to power, you'd get better gains. but that would just be a Peltier. Yet somehow this device gets better efficeny, with the extra step.
michal report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Great Start

Jun 05, 2007 10:56     

Heat is the product or byproduct of energy. It's about time someone invented a means of converting back into useful energy. It's a great start and will provide a catalyst for other inventors to improve on. Perhaps we will not see a consumer application this year, but in ensuing time this might be another technology that consumers will take for granted.
Rick Horwitz report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Steam Turbine

Jun 05, 2007 11:09     

How about we just convert everyone's watercooling setups... instead of radiating the heat, super heat it, create steam, feed it into a turbine and generate electricity. Bring back the P4!
J report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Useful......maybe

Jun 05, 2007 12:23     

I think the best application for this would be a combination of this and a modern heatsink/fan. Incorporate this device into the base of a Arctic Freezer 7 Pro. The processor heats the base, which in turn produces electricity. Heatpipes then take the excess heat to a set of cooling fins with a fan that is powered by this device, dissipating the heat and cooling the chamber of the device, creating a larger temperature difference that will produce more energy. Also, using this technology could make C2Q and C2D Extremes available for silent, passivly cooled systems, since some of the heat energy would be turned into electricty and moved away from the source, and the rest would be dissipated via a fanless heatsink.

Forsaken502 report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Re: its not actual cooling

Jun 05, 2007 13:03     

Umm Michal? All cooling (repeat ALL COOLING) is some form of Heat Transfer from a gradient of High Potential (hotter) to a gradient of Lower Potential (cooler). When a fan blows cool air across your face on a hot day it feels cooler because the rapid movement of air encourages evaporation of perspiration on your skin exchanging the heat from a Hotter Potential (skin) to a Lower Potential (air). In fact BY definition there is no such state as Cold. there is only varying degrees of Heat. What matters is how efficient the system for transfering heat is. 20% more electricity sounds good but of course you would lose a substantail amount of that electricity converting it back to AC Current of the correct voltage, but the implied potential savings in generation costs does at first blush seem to be significant. Only time will tell if this tech matures enough to be really useful

skeptic2 report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Sound and effciency...

Jun 05, 2007 13:34     

So the system can produce very loud sounds...and the pizeoelectric devices produce electricity from changes in pressure. Sounds like to me that any efforts to contain the sound inside of the chamber would substantially increase the efficiency due to the greater contained pressure working on the pizeoelectric devices.
TheLegend report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Thermoelectric coolers

Jun 05, 2007 13:48     

This could work out great in combination with a thermoelectric cooler. The processor (or whatever) side would be kept cold and the thermo-acoustic side would be kept hot. You could even start to cascade the thermoelectric coolers to make the processor side VERY cold and the thermo-acoustic side VERY hot. It could be a great benefit for the "eco-friendly." The only problem would be condensation...but there's always a way around that.

Larry report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

guys, give me a break.

Jun 05, 2007 18:06     

please people, when you say "its only 20% efficient", think about what you're saying. Your car is only about 30% efficient at turning gas into kinetic energy, and your body is only 36% efficient in turning food into ATP for your energy use. 20% is pretty darn good for the first run of a new technology. plus, you can use this in so many ways! recharge your laptop while its in use, recharge your hybrid car's batteries from engine heat on the highway, get energy back from your oven, get energy out of all sorts of hot exhausts, the possibilities!

mike report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

RE: Misleading title

Jun 05, 2007 18:36     

Wolfgang, your article only said that "they succeeded in building small devices that turn heat into sound and then into electricity." There wasn't anything in the original press release or in your article that said they had these things sitting on processors, although it sounds like you spoke directly to Symko and he speculated about how much something like that would cost in the future. Maybe he does have one of his coolers on a chip. Must be one of the smaller ones -- the photos show him holding onto plastic tubes about a yard long. If he did say that he stuck one on a Core or AM2 processor and it worked, that would be interesting. (I don't think I wrote "very" misleading title the first time.) Tell us if he said more when you spoke with him.

steve report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Cooling processor using heat?! How can it work!?

Jun 06, 2007 01:23     

> Symko told us that a thermo-acoustic cooling > device for a computer could cost about $100 to > $200, when it goes into production. I am laughing my tooth off. Symko should really think again about this idea, as a physicist instead of a sales man... Priciple of Physics tell us that energy cannot be created or eliminated. We can only transform energy into different forms - that is why this "thermo-acoustic" thingy work. But, think about it, if the generated electricity is used to power cooling device, the transformed electric energy is re-input back to the processor and converted back to thermo energy again! So, this system is actually circulating thermo energy instead of trying to disapate it. The only chance of energy escaping the system is by a form other than heat - sound! My advice: if you really want your computer to beep like a giant metal cricket, make sure to check it out! :P

AdamWu report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

geothermal plants

Jun 06, 2007 03:02     

Geothermal and this technology could provide a better efficiency than using steam from geothermal to drive turbines. Geothermal for bigger applications for those who has it at their geographical feature or an efficient replacement or a photo voltaic hybrid.
Emmanuel report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Best Suitable for Handheld

Jun 06, 2007 06:44     

Infact (further research) could enable the handhelds to supplement there energy source, thus, leading to more mobility for technology.
Omair report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Re:Re: Cooling

Jun 06, 2007 07:07     

what I meant that its not actual 'cooling' is that its not like a peitler, where you can get below ambient temperatures. which at times the TG article had hints of implying.
michal report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Again...

Jun 06, 2007 08:00     

Someone said this before, but again: there is 20% LOSS --> 80% efficiency!!! Even if there are another phases where we lose some power, it is still >50% efficient
VonJ report abuse vote down vote up Votes: +0

Steve doesn't know what he's talking about!!!

Jun 06, 2007 09:04