can you say 09 f9?

Awww to bad for M$. Don’t these bone heads get the idea that not everyone can afford their over priced product. Most of the folks that use open office (great applications by the way) would not buy or want M$’s over hyped, over featured, bloated, software.
Yes M$ go to it and crush everything you can, greed is greed and one day your absurdity will end.

Looks like they are trying to compensate for something.

Just more fodder for web-wide flame wars.

I don't think that software should be patentable. Copyright yes, patent no. That said, software is pastented and MS does legetimately own patents on its innovations. They are not allowed to infringe on other's patents, and it would be very unfair to disallow them that while simultaniously not protecting their own.

You can't afford Windows? Well I can't afford a Ferrari, and I know people who can't afford a car at all. That sucks. That doesn't make theft OK.

Open Office and LINUX are fine and dandy, but they can no more legally steal others patents than MS can.

If there is no patent infringement, then MS is filing a nuisence lawsuit and should be slapped for it. If there is, then it is LINUX/OpenOffice at fault and they should have to come up with their own ideas...

At least until we just get rid of patents on software.

Are they going after Linux as a whole or just one specific build or what?

Is Mark Raby trying to suggest that Linux is a Windows clone?

The fact is M$ is feeling threatened. Open Office and Linux have been around for a while and once again M$ is accusing them of infringement. Well if they did infringe then by all means go for it M$. However I have seen this before and M$ has a running record of flexing muscle to intimidate when they have no real proof. With Firefox and more user friendly Linux distro's coming out (like Ubuntu and others) people now feel they have real world alternatives other than M$ to choose from not just some tech geek alternatives but something the everyday Joe can actually use.

That my friends is the what and why M$ is howling again. If the average person feels they have more than one choice they will explore that possability. Something that scares M$ to its core.

Yet another reason why software should not be patentable. Software is a list of instructions, it technically should only be copyrightable.

Here is more information
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent_debate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F..._and_doubt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_vs._Lindows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_processor

I'm sure that Microsoft will clame that "toliet paper" infringes on it's spreadsheets.

I knew SCO is owned by Microsoft?

Thank you for actually saying something worth a grain of salt unlike the other comments so far.

People seem to forget that Microsoft gets sued all the time for patent infringement. And people bash them for stealing. But when Microsoft wants to protect its property, the same people bash them for trying to control everything.

You don't like Microsoft? Fine. Shut up and go use something else. But if that something else infringes upon what Microsoft spent time and money developing, then don't complain if it isn't there anymore.

You should read this article:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/090507_Database/09May2007_data05.php

"The Free Software movement is dead. Linux doesn't exist in 2007. Even Linus has got a job today."

"They are full-time employees, with 401K stock options. Some work for IBM or Oracle. What does that mean? It means that Linux doesn't exist any more in 2007. There is no free software movement. If someone says Linux is about Love, Peace and Harmony, I would tell them to do their research. There is no free software movement any more. There is big commercial [firms] like IBM and there is small commercial [firms] like Ubuntu,"

Bill Hilf used to head IBM's Linux strategy, and now works for Microsoft so he has quite a bit of experience on both sides of the fence.

Yea, I'm with Microsoft on this one. No one can just copy features and ideas invented by another. Microsoft has every right to shut down Linux or it's software if Linux is in violation.

Microsoft has done so much for computing that's it's truly amazing. They are also an American company...which are becoming fewer and fewer. American's at least should be standing shoulder to shoulder with one of our great corporations.

What, everyone else can sue Microsoft but Microsoft isn't allowed to sue back? Give me a break.

It seems that the majority are questioning what a company can patent. Can a company patent a graphical interface? How about the command line interface? A spreadsheet form? A number? A tax saving strategy? (Laugh if you want, but after listening to Wisconsin Public Radio I was shocked that there are tax-sheltering strategies that have a patent - and thus, in the right set of circumstances, doing you own taxes could violate some else's intellectual property!) How about a living organism? (The courts said no, but then said yes to patenting genomes of living creatures. Yes, you can't patent the bee, but a company can own the genetic code that nature uses to describe it.)

So the question is what should patents be allowed to cover? Think carefully, because few companies would invest the resources required to create the products you want if there were too great of a restriction. Also, if the world used only open-source software, how would that affect the demand for professional (meaning you get paid to do it) programmers?

Just a few things to mill over while deciding if Microsoft is acting justifiably... and if they should have been allowed that right in the first place.

[Please note, I am not a Microsoft, Linux, AMD, Intel, or Mac fan-boy. I prefer to keep an open mind - its the same difference as between a patriot (what is best for my country) and a nationalist (my country right or wrong).]

http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowP...stID=53601

The only thing M$ spends money on is PR and Lawyers; they want to ban toliet paper so you don't get that clean feeling after bending over to their will.

Why can't people get it right? Its free as in freedom, not as in no price tag. How do you think they pay for food, if they don't have any income? Wake up!

Can a photocopy be patented ?

Microsoft are the innovators, and they do get sued for patent infringement themselves. This simple fact is all one should need to view their actions as justifiable. Get over it.

Nothing good will come of this for M$. All it will do is to put the spotlight on free alternatives to M$ programs that most people didn't know existed.

I have read in other articles on the subject that there is no real proof of patent infringements. The offending parties would gladly work around and/or avoid infringing on patents if they knew which ones they infringing on. MS has yet to show which patents they are being infringed on.

A free market means having competition to improve and/or motivate to improve ones product. With MS dominating the os market and giving (most) companies no choice in which os to install, I doubt they (MS ) have little if any motivation to improve their products.

Just to clarify, Microsoft is not suing anyone and they won't dare to do so either (because the emptiness of their threat would be revealed), they're just using the threat of patent infringement suits to try and blackmail money out of companies using Linux and open source, software for which they can't take any credit.

If brought to court, their case would be obliterated once actual prior art searches, obviousness and failure to promptly take action after infringement is suspected, bring some reality to their FUD claims. That would wipe their pretty number of 235 infringements to just about nothing. Instead, they love to just dangle this supposed thread of 235 infringements in front of everyone’s face and make the uninformed pay up.

This is the reason they don’t specify which patents they’re talking about, as their patents would be invalidated even without going to court. And of course they won’t sue Linux developers, as they would have to be specific about the patents they’re talking about in that case too. Better to just scare Linux customers with vague threats instead.

I wonder if anyone in the Linux business could sue Microsoft for trying to hurt their business with unsubstantiated claims though. It should be illegal to "compete" by what basically comes down to slander, without providing enough detail to prove or disprove any of it.

As to Waethorn's comment, please label it as uninformed blabber. Of course people who work on open source have jobs. Linux obviously exists in 2007 and is apparently doing well enough to make Microsoft afraid.

Blatant ripoffs are blatantly legal. Walk down the soda or cereal isle of any grocery store.

"Its free as in freedom, not as in no price tag."

Oh REALLY?? That's a new one! Tell that to the Linux shills who always say things like "M$".

"Of course people who work on open source have jobs."

Exactly! People who develop for open-source fit into two categories:

1) They program as a hobby. These developers are few and far between and they don't contribute very much to innovation.

2) They program as part of their job. Obviously this is where the majority of developers fit, as they can't possibly work full-time without making money at it.

So "free software"? I think not. Commercial Linux dists are huge money (from an implementation and support standpoint, RHEL is VERY expensive), and that's why most of the original developers have either given up and no longer deal with Linux or other free software, or else have started working with larger companies such as IBM or Novell.

"You can't live on good intentions." Welcome to the real world.

If it weren't for MS eliminating pretty much everything and anyone in the OS and office markets we wouldn't be here today. How they did this is also of questionable legality.
The problem today is this one. You work in an office like my mother does. You get a PC , let's say an cheap second hand Pentium III. You need and OS and office software. M$ software will cost you a fortune for just Office and Windows, let's say 300 $ minimum but you only spent 100 $ on the PC monitor. Maybe you don't even want or like Windows and Office.
You then proceed to install Linux and OpenOffice which work just fine. But wait , you get a .doc from someone because MS made sure docs are everywhere these days. OpenOffice knows how to open docs because they worked hard to reverse engineer the thing. Is this a patent infringement ? I don't know and I don't care , I think OO has the right to open and save to doc if MS made it the standard these days. Then you get a flash USB stick and problems again , that's formatted in FAT so Windows PCs can read it. Patent infringement again ? Why ? because you need to use the bloody stick ? And then you have to go online and watch a trailer , again patent infringement because of the open source code that lets you play wmv , right ?
MS give us a break , open source has the right to provide things in order to work with the stuff you created and imposed.

Obviously, there is a much bigger threat foreseen if M$ is very mixed up. So much for industry leadership and innovation. Theres not enough out there for M$ to copy if they are worried about this.

Sorry, M$, I am done with you. XP is my last M$ OS. Long live Linux!!!

you Linux nerds are just f00ls. Give it ten years and Microsoft will own the whole computing world... rightfully so, hard work pays off.

David - youre a tard - use linux.

For those crying that it isnt fair and that free office alternatives are the best way to go - dont forget, developers need to get paid too.

how about everyone just stop paying for software all together? Im sure all those people will go to uni and get degrees just to make sure that the jones family has software for free.

grow up Linux nerds. Microsoft make the best, most functional solution for business today - because they can afford to hire good developers.

Note: I am not a developer, and Im not biased at anything - just take a look at the facts.

This is just getting stupid, you need to stop suing in the name of big company greed over there, and lighten up a bit.

Intellectual properties are just ideas, ideas have always been free. They are only patterns of activations in neurons in the brain. You cannot stop patterns of neural activation from spreading. We are humans, that is what we do. It is very basic. Greed has taken the best of some companies, and it has all gotten out of hand. The perspective and big picture is lost. All that matters is money and revenue.

It is a greatly disturbed picture. And I'm not the only one to see it.

I feel sorry for the state of several big corporations, not to mention the state of the states.

Consumers need to stand up against this kind of biased thinking. Wake up and smell the new era.

Long live opensource and collaboration.

I think this is very ridiculous. Much of Microsoft's OS is derived from stuff they copied from other companies. However, whenever one of these other companies sues Microsoft for patent infringement, they always lose. Quite a while ago Apple sued Microsoft for copying from Mac OS, but by the end of the lawsuit, it came out looking like Microsoft had successfully sued Apple. Apple's lawsuit had much more merit than this, yet they lost. I think the real problem is that Microsoft has too much money to throw at the lawyers.

So that means almost every piece of software in the world is infringing. When will it end!!

In the past twenty years in my self employee business you meet all kinds and from personal experience on a face to face business Microsoft has to be the most dishonest group that I had ever work with well maybe Cox Enterprises are the worst and the biggest liars in the United States and after years of experience I do understand slander but the truth is not slander its a fact and I have the proof of both and their agents ripping my system apart and a few more .Then all I got to say their are going to be alot of rich lawyers before I am done with these unproffesional --------see ya in court chumps ,slips with da streetwise

Vista is a open source program for Microsoft to take what they want and along with their knowledge stealing trojans they download along with their software got that one two and the time of entry and exit along with some other great names that will be served with court orders.Think every two hundred i spend will cost you millions funny well I think it is!

If Microsoft takes down openoffice, then the same should be done to Microsoft for copying Wordperfect and Quattro Pro. I still remember using Word and Excel 6.0. They both were inferior to Quattro Pro and Wordperfect. Then voilé, Microsoft's next version (Office 97) has a lot of the same wizards and features that made Wordperfect better. At least they still haven't copied the 'click and type anywhere on the page' feature, because that could lead to a lawsuit.

I have both and use both for different reasons. openoffice has the built in pdf creator. MS office has been forced to not have that unless you buy the program from adobe or other pdf printers like win2pdf.
Good luck to MS and their deep pockets. I hope it pays off to stifle competition.

This world is currently based on corporations competing with each other under international laws that prohibit any TRUE accomplishments because some asshole from a company has jotted on a piece of paper filed in the patent office.
analysts are saying that China is going to have problems because of their infringement issues.
Well I say that China is going to be one of the few countries that will flourish - no chains attached.
LESS ORGANIZED PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES
= true advancements.
Think about it. Any company or individuals there can take something flawed, and make it perfect.

So China, don't get lazy. The whole world is waiting on you and other bold countries alike!

x0x0x

The whole patent system is awash with trivial, obvious, impossible and downright stupid patents. Its not about protecting clever ideas anymore - its about hobbling the competition. The results of patent fights usually come down to who has the most money.
The guy who invented, and patented FM radio lost his fight with Motorola because they kept him in court until he died.
Competition is good for the consumer - Long live AMD vs Intel, Nvidia vs ATI, Microsoft vs Linux vs OS X !!!

I don't know the current patent duration laws, but let me make it easier from a noobody.

hmm let's see Make patents on software viable for up to six months for the idea with working model, with a 3 month extention for reasonable progress.
If the product is produced and distributed, then it may flourish for up to two years.

Also, perhaps it would be wise to allow other companies after one year to bid for that patent from microsoft. yes make that mandatory. Evolution
Evolution, Evolution

"Its free as in freedom, not as in no price tag."

Oh REALLY?? That's a new one!

Have you ever read or heard of the GPL? What? No? It's been and being explained there (for the past 15 or so years) what they meant by 'free'. And yes, it's exactly what you're scoffing at.

.

Isn't that the widgets such as clock, calendar, etc display on the screen copied from Yahoo widget?

Consumers should be furious... microsoft is using it's clout to smash any competition which will just cost the consumer more and more over time. Winning a judgement is good for MS and bad for the rest of us. Tactics like this will only make consumers hate MS in the end... in my humble opinion.

If microsoft didn't charge a damn arm and leg for basics (that frankly should be included in windows at this point) like WORD, there wouldn't be a need for free programs. Hell, I'm USING open office. I can't afford to pay $200 for office 2007 WORD! WOOORRDD!!! Unless it pulls the information directly from your brain and puts it on the screen with ZERO grammatical errors, I won't pay $200 to write documents.

You folks that agree with M$ should read the articles on http://www.groklaw.net/
Basically most OS and software patents are owned by IBM and even if linux and open office does infrige on M$ patents it is 100% sure that Windows infriges IBM patents so all that will happen is that M$ sues linux and IBM/Sun... many others contersue M$. This statement about 235 patents is just plain old vapourware. Which goal is to spread FUD, a strategy not unheard of from M$ in the past....

First, OpenSource software uses different licences, the two main ones are the BSD and GPL. Software under a BSD licence is generally always released free of cost, and any one using it can do with it what they want, provided they display the copyright notice. Microsoft use BSD code in their OS.
GPL software is the equivilent to putting software into the public domain, but prevents people from using it in closed-source applications without the copyright owners consent.

Neither the BSD, nor GPL licence forbids anyone from selling open source software using these licences. I could buy a copy of RHEL, but, Red Hat cannot stop me from distributing it or changing it and selling the changed version, or just giving it away. Open Source software is, a lot of the time, free of cost, but, some companies do make a living on it.

Software Patents are, for the most part, not recognised outside the US, which I am thankful for, because patents on software are a barrier to innovation, interoperability and competition. I am strongly opposed to them, and I will continue wholeheartly to use Linux, Open Office and other OSS programmes that I use so much. Patents dont protect ideas, they protect the impliamentation of them and allow the person who came up with it to earn money from the sale of the products using this impliamentation. Since software is not a physical product, it should not have the protection of the patent system. That is what Copyright is for.

I am by no means anti-microsoft, and if Linux or another OSS app is infringing on MS's patents, then, MS has every right to persue the matter, and chances are, the developers will be more then happy to work around the patent violations.

The reason that MS is bashed if they do or dont, is because they have an unfair monopoly on the OS market, and they constantly use this to push their other products and services, such as Internet Explorer and Office.

MS has infringed on my patent by using zero and one in its code. I will sue to protect my intellectual property.

I also hold patent on AND, OR, XOR, NAND, and NOR and plan to sue Intel and AMD for using those operators in their CPUs.

In the end, I'll have ALL the money and I'll be generous with all you guys!

This is a legal matter and has nothing to do with "right" or "wrong" or who is infringing. In an age in which I can patent something I didn't create, such as life, anything goes. O. J. was innocent. He may have murdered two people but that has nothing to do with it. Welcome to whatever all this is.

Probably stated somewhere already in the posts, but this doesn't suprise me that this happened right after dell decided to sell a few pcs with Linux.

By the way, When can we see Open Office In American Schools? (I'd probable be illegal)

A while back, Creative made Unified that allowed its Nvidia TNT cards to run Glide API. At the time before 3DFX tanked, it had a copyright and patented i believe. In any case, Creative won the suit because it proved that its work on the Glide Alternative API was done entirely in house without any use of 3DFX code.

In the case of MS vs The Free World, to circumvent the patent by claiming it is not derived from MS code and claim that is novel in that it is able to run on another OS. There by, allowing you to file a new and separate patent.

That being said, patents on software is about as dumb as Websters suing every author for using words in it's book "The Dictionary." i'm not even certain how a patent can be attained under the conditions necessary for a utility patent. Unless all MS patents are design patents which are even looser.

what doesn't exist. There is no Linux company, there is no money to be gained because the money wasn't there to begin with. Also, you cannot patent what has been in public use for several years, and I think you can't sue for infringement if you had known about it and failed to act within a reasonable amount of time. Also, the "infringement" wasn't used for profit, and the "lost revenue" was revenue they never had: linux-exclusive users. Do Microsoft products work on Linux? No. Then how can it be used as a target for stealing market share? Its apples and oranges, love. Its not like Apple sued SanDisk for using a rotating wheel as a control device on their MP3 player.

And I suppose microsoft designed C# from Scratch taking inspiration from Java. Or they were sleeping when the J2EE Frameworks were coming. Java came in 1997. C# a clone copy came in 2001.

And well herez a new story

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=245

Microsoft copied from BuiJ, even admits to.

I am expecting next thing in thier target list wil be RIFE Framework.

Microsoft takes ideaz from Open Source , it's a fact. Why? Coz all the MIT and techno whiz kids are making open source software's that are truly innovative. If you love the cool looks of vista, you should have seen beryl desktop manager availble for years. It's been copied. So it's like they sugar coat the stuff and give it to u...for a price and u happily accept it.

It's all hard work by the whiz kids and coders, who work for free just to make somethin truly nice....going down the drain. Systems like Fedora and such are far far better than crappy vista which is I guess Service Pack 5. don't believe it.....well they were planin to release WinFS (New File System.....kinda stuff) when the story got leaked that it was a copy from OFS (object file system developed by IBM years ago....)

Still don;t accept this....wel keep enjoyin the windows world with ur close eyes...and perhaps the Open Source stuff we now enjoy u can see in next version of vista maybe zillion years later when microsoft can decipher the code and copy it.

G33K

So Microsoft should pay for all this first then start complaining about this.

And ya, the windows 2000 kernel was also inspired from Unix.

What the F*** is now microsoft is complaining about?

I cant believe, well, I guess I can but I'm ashamed of Microsoft. They really have sunk to a new low. I thought Windows Millenium was about as low as you can sink, but they released Vista and now this???