The computer feeding more ethanol fuel to the cylinders is the least of the problems with a flex fuel conversion. Ethanol is much more corrosive than gasoline so the rubber hoses and gaskets must be built to withstand it. Since the rubber that can handle E85 is more expensive than standard gasoline grade rubber, I seriously doubt your run of the mill car has the right stuff.

Make your own ethenol, eh? Well if you can churn out 5 to 10 gallons per hour, it might be worth it...
Especially if once you set up still the process is relatively easy.
And you could sell the rest as moonshine to others ;)

A major concern is that the more people jump on the ethanol/biodiesel bandwagon, the more competition for human/animal food. 1 75 liter tankful of ethanol uses as much food as will feed a person for one year. Having SUVs consuming one year's worth of food every couple days seems very shortsighted, which is why George Bush is for it, I guess. I guess if you want food costs to be as volatile as the current oil prices are, then go ahead. I can't wait to have my food prices influenced by market speculators every time some oil producing country's government does something stupid or gets threatened by another stupid country's government. Just cutting back on your fuel use is the most efficient method of getting fuel prices back to sane levels.

As Joebob said previously, if your car or truck is not flex fuel all of the rubber components in the fuel system will be corroded by the E85. This article shouldn't have even been written.

It would be handy if there was some information on how to contact the company or read up more on their product in the article.

I believe this is the right page...
http://www.fullflexint.com/pages/products1.htm

Why are we wasting time with this crap, the government should force a move to EVs. It's insane that one crazy leader of a small country (Iran) can make the world's oil prices change. Move to EVs and he becomes irrelevant as do the food consumption concerns.

Nothing like a bunch of weakminded loud mouths to spew
negativity about something they have no knowledge. Eat me.

It helps farmers, it's cheap to implement, reduces foreign dependencies, hardly adds to the CO2 levels, cheap to use, doesn't require much more oil to produce (EVs or Hybrids do) and doesn't require more coal or nuclear plants (like EVs would need).

No matter what system we switch to there will still be supply issues. Do you want to have your prices influenced by foreign politics, crop yields or power generation limits (and the fuels to generate that power)?

http://video.google.ca/videopl...&q=ethanol
Good video related to the subject.

We use alcohol (ethanol) for a long time and it does not corrode things. A large part of cars here are flex and some were converted from gasoline without preparation. There is no evidence, even as gossip, that it makes anything worse. Even our gasoline has ethanol (25%) and does not corrodes anything. My car is a 2001 gasoline only model and never anything got corroded.

I am for it. Any and all ideas to improve the efficiency or reduce our dependence on fossil fuel is welcome. And I am no tree hugger.

I am glad that the price of the gasoline has gone up. As if the price stay low forever, what is the incentive for investors or companies to invest in alternative method of power?

Regarding the electric vehicle. Sure, it is zero emission while in use. But how much pollutants and energy were required to produce all those lead-acid batteries? And what is their life span? Batteries are not known to last and they are quite toxic. What about charging? How do you think electric power is produced? Here in the U.S., we only get 28.1% of our electric power from nuclear plants, hydro, and other renewable sources. While the reminder 71.9% of our power comes from burning coal, oil, gas, etc. Despite the fact that our plants produces much much less pollutants than China, India, Russia, etc... they are still burning fossil fuel. Here is the site of my source:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epa_sum.html

So I suggest everybody to vote for more nuclear power plants to reduce emissions that way.

Regarding the food debate. Our government pays farmers to not grow crops. So if we are to start the ethanol fuel plants, we can divert those farmer subsidies into funds for research and ethanol production. Farmers can grow to their heart's content to satisfy our cravings for fuel. I think it is a win win situation.

It has less energy per gallon than gasoline, therefore it's less effecient. How much energy is actually used and how much resources are actually used to produce the ethanol. Farmers burn fuel to plant fields, and harvest, fields must be fertalized more often to produce good crops, fields must be irragated, so now there could be a water issue. What happens when the U.S. has a bad crop year? Do we grow corn to feed the cattle, or to drive our cars? I say let's just use good ole fashion gasoline. If people really want to be green buy a diesle and burn biofuel, like McDonalds left over fry oil. I'm sure that Ethanol will end up costing more at the pump than gasoline in the long run because it's subsidized by the Gov't. Don't waste any more resources on Ethanol.

Jared may be right that ethanol may use more energy/resources to produce but so what? Energy is cheap, and the whole "more energy in than out" thing is only a superficially logical argument spread about by presidents who got rich and elected on oil money and the oil companies themselves in order to make alternative fuels sound bad in any way they can because they don't want to lose their gas marketplace.

The real issue is about environmental damage through emissions not any mythical global shortage of energy.

As long as the total emissions of pollutants and greenhouse gasses from the production and use of alternative fuels is less than that of gasoline, its a net win.

I am talking about the cars performance. Can ethanol really produce the same energy equivalent as gas? I mean I don't want my already slow running Mazda to churn out even less bhp and not get up those steep inclines.....

So the "more energy in than out" is just a superficial logical argument? Right, we really can't get logic get in the way of our thinking now can we.

Then you go on to state that the "real" problem is emissions.. Do you even realize that using ethanol in our cars is going to produce _more_ emissions globally because it takes more energy to produce it. But then I guess if we could import our ethanol from Brazil or maybe China then those emissions would happen there and wouldn't be our problem and we could happily drive around in our "clean" cars and feel all warm and fuzzy about ourself.

I'm not saying we should continue our addiction to fossil fuels, but this ethanol trend serves no purpose other than subsidizing corn farmers and green-washing GM and Ford.
Saying "why use oil when there is ethanol" is like saying "why use electricity when there are batteries".

Biodiesel is a much better alternative for a clean fuel. It is already possible to make it in an energy productive manner (get more energy than you spend making it) and it's more suitable for use as an automotive fuel.
We should continue to investigate ethanol, one day we'll be able to make it and come out positive in terms of energy. It will however never be suitable for use as an automotive fuel thanks to it's low energy contents. It could probably be great for use in applications where range isn't such an issue such as mopeds and scooters, city cars (though there are better options there too), lawnmowers and other such equipment, etc.

What about MPG with ethanol vs. gasoline? From strictly a $$ perspective, if the average car gets, say for example, 30 MPG with gas, and only 10 MPG with ethanol, then your not only spending the same $$ on fuel, but your taking your own free time to make it vs. just stopping at a pump. Keep in mind I'm not, for this point only, mentioning the political/ethical reasons to use ethanol vs. gas.

In my opinion, there is no one right answer to our problems. That's the beauty of our country. What's good for one person may not work for others. I hope Full Fex does well. Chalk it up to another option for a step in the right direction. Most can hopefully agree we need to make some sort of changes. I'll probably not try this as we are going the small econo box route or riding bikes when possible. Making your own Ethanol just sounds like a bad idea. I can see the headlines now... "Man blows up garage while trying to save the environment". Not to mention the red tape for a permit to make the stuff. I'm sure you will end up on some sort of terrorist watch list or something. Either way. Neat idea but not for everyone. Too bad all the insane profits from the oil companies can't be used on a free or majorly discounted car replacement program or a new national public transportation system. Just a thought.

Here in Brazil we have ethanol since the 70's. There are conversion kits available here for use in gasoline vehicles also, the same like this. They only don't tell you that your engine was calibrated for use with gasoline only and using ethanol you will spend more fuel per mile than on a prepared ethanol engine. Engines that work with ethanol and gasoline (we call 'flexfuel') has other components than a device like this. You have also the fuel composition different, which causes problems as time goes by... It's not worth your money.

To all you morons complaining about corroding fuel lines if you read the article it discusses how that is not an issue, so pleas before you open your mouth that seems to be connected to a brain that isn't operating properly, RTFA.

Before you call people morons why don't you pay attention to the fact that the update was not part of the original article. And you might want to check out how simple it would be to change all of the rubber components.

An awful lot of the comments posted so far indicate the almost universal chant "if you're for it then, I'm again' it" which usually comes from an ignorant mind. Get educated; Google 'Flex fuel Ethanol' or 'Flex Fuel Vehicle' and find out what's out there on the subject. If you really believe that your vehicle will fall apart from exposure to Ethanol you had better run right out into the driveway and check for leaks - you've been using a 10% blend of it during winter months in most cities in the US since 1988-1990.

I have just completed a 4,xxx mile test running 100% E-85 with a Full Flex Gold FFV Conversion Kit installed on my stock '98 Ford F-150 XLT 4x2; 4.2L V-6 and it hasn't fallen apart nor does it leak all over the driveway. Its increased my Horsepower 12 and Torque 5.5 ft-lbs with NO modifications or adjustments to the engine or fuel system. The performance of the 'old slow Mazda' mentioned above, (given how it been maintanined), would likely improve considerably as did my pickup. My '98 with 98,xxx miles is no longer a doggy old 4.2L V-6 - it now has lots of 'get up and go'. Emissions are next to nil when burning E-85 and the age old 'adverse gas mileage saw' has proved NOT to be anywhere near the 27% btu difference between Unleaded gas and E-85. My intown mpg difference is less than 5mpg and my interstate hwy. mileage difference varies between 1.5-3 mpg depending on whether I'm running at 60-65mph or 75-80mph into the wind or down wind AND, I'm running at altitudes between 5,000'-7,800' above sea level.

If you want to see the corrosive effect that E-85 had on a '00 Tahoe after burning it (without having been converted) log on to [ http://www.rune85.com/internal engine.htm ] or for a good write up on a '01 Ford Explorer FFV Conversion check in to [ http://e85vehicles.com/converting-e85.htm ]. GET EDUCATED before spouting off about something of which you OBVIOUSLY know nothing.

I am interested in converting my car to run on Ethanol. $400 for the conversion sure sounds reasonable. Can recoup that in one year. The bigger question is: How much will I have to spend on a still that can put out 10 gallons a week and how big will it be? Does anybody know the answers to these questions?

Ethanol. Do you really believe all the hype about it?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/03/30/ethanol-emissions.html?ref=rss

The study found no statistical difference between the greenhouse gas emissions of regular unleaded fuel and 10 per cent ethanol blended fuel.

Although the study found a reduction in carbon monoxide, a pollutant that forms smog, emissions of some other gases, such as hydrocarbons, actually increased under certain conditions.

Bill Rees, an ecology professor at the University of British Columbia and longtime opponent of ethanol, has read the report and thinks Canadians need to know its conclusions.

"I must say, I'm a little surprised at that, because it seems to fly in the face of current policy initiatives," he said.

"People are being conned into believing in a product and paying for it through their tax monies when there's no justifiable benefit and indeed many negative costs."

As I said EVs! Your arguments against EVs were addressed in the movie, "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
-Li-Ion batteries replace the acid batteries.
-The US power grid currently has capacity for 180,000,000 vehicles for night-time recharging.
-80% recharge in 40 minutes.
-zero auto emissions
-more reliable than internal combustion engines
-localizing dirty emissions from fossil fuel plants is more desirable than spreading the dirty emissions all over.
-Wind, water, solar power is slowly offering more power to the power grid. Also solar panels for residential use is becoming more affordable.

A few years ago, I lived in an apartment that had a hydrocarbon problem. Until is was fixed my family was sick and nauseous. Ethanol could be (we'll see as more testing is done) a net negative, making gasoline a cleaner (ha!) choice.

Don't believe all the bull$hit studies you hear, corporate money mongers pay people to massage numbers and public policy. People are so greedy and self-orientated today, everyone is out for #1. (that's not a fact, just my opinion)

Good night and good luck!

The COST appears to depend on how much sweat equity you're willing to expend. Mother Earth has plans for a DIY still and you can find everything up to a first class "move it in and plug it in vaiety"

So, don't believe the myriad of reports from Gov't. and Independent Organizations, check out the results that I've recorded via Dyno runs; City of ABQ Emissions Tests and my fuel usage receipts from 4,000 miles ago when I converted my '98 Ford 150 XLT, 4.2L, V-6; 2x4 with 98,xxx miles on the odometer to a FFV (Flex Fuel Vehicle). Its been running great on full tanks of 100% E-85 with NO PEOBLEMS ever since.

I've made six Dyno runs; two before the FFV Conversion on 86 octane gas and four runs after the conversion on full tanks of E-85. The Dyno shows a 12.2 HP and 5.5 ft-lbs Torque increase AND, two widely spaced, (in mileage), Emissions tests on full tanks of E-85 show that the engine is running VERY, VERY CLEAN.

At normal highway cruising RPMs of 2200-2500, the tests indicate: Hydrocarbons = 13-17ppm, (where 100 ppm is the max. allowable), and CO & CO2 Emissions have virtually been eliminated.
[CO = 0.00-0.01%, (where 1.00% is the Max.) and CO2 = 15.3-15.7% (where 16.0 optimum and 14.7% is ideal.] [O2 = 0.32%, (where the lowest possible is desirable)].

Continuing the Stats. on the FFV Conversion of my stock '98 Ford 150 XLT, 4.2L, V-6; 2x4; at94,xxx-98,xxx miles;

Gas mileage to ABQ at 78 mph=12.7 mpg w/tailgate up.
(E-85 @ $2.779/gal in SAF)(with 21.5 gal of E-85 & 3.5 gal of Unleaded left in the tank at the low fuel light.) (descending in altitude from 7,000' msl to 5,000' msl.)

Gas mileage back to Santa Fe at 78 mph=12.0 mpg w/tailgate up.
(E-85 @ $2.99/gal in ABQ)(after the emissions test, the Dyno run and a visit to see my Granddaughter.)(ascending in altitude from 5,000' msl to 7,000' msl.)

My 'usual' gas mileage using Unleaded regular has run between 15-18 mpg depending on the direction of the Wind; whether the tail gate is up or down, and Load (whether I'm hauling my 950# BMW Touring bike or not). [Lowering the tailgate increases my MPG's by 0.5 to 0.9 mpg.] Tonneau Covers Really Do Improve Gas Mileage. This link shows that lowering the tail gate DOES reduce drag and slightly increase gas mileage.
[ http://www.pickupspecialties.c...avings.htm ]

Saddly, it is a fact of our very comfortable lives that an ideological &/or political bias can so blind an individual that they are incapable of seeing or learning anything that is not spood fed to them by their minders/ heros.

With the libraries full of info that is available on the internet it is 'ammost' inconceiveable that 'some people' are so ignorant on subjects about which they are so willing to open their mouths and then insert both feet.

Ethanol (E-85) and Bio Diesel are HERE, NOW ! They are being burned cleanly by existing, as well as new engines, everyday and, with the possible exception of Hybrid Vehicles that are operating with some success today, all other propulsion technologies face years, if not decades, before even coming close to providing the benefits we currently derive from the internal combustion engine.

Would all the Naysayers be willing to shut down their lives for 5 or, 10 or, 15 years until EV's; Fuel Cells or pure Hydrogen is proven commercially viable. They'd be the first to scream 'the gov't or some big business conspiracy' is messing up their lives while spewing the age old 'party line' that incoporates everything negative about the subjcet at had. I their minds, and the practices of their minders, "If you're for it; I'm again' it" ! Their minds are shut tight and no amount of logic; statistics; or reports can open them to the light.

There is another kit that is sold called Flextek. Fullflex only warranties their product for one year while Flextek has a 2 year warranty and even will cover your vehicle during its original man. warranty if something happens...
www.flextek.com

you get more horsepower but less gas mileage when using ethanol (maybe 5mpg less depending on your vehicle and driving habits). But, when making ethanol or when a car uses it, there are next to zero emissions. And, the cost is half what we're currently paying at the pump. So for people wondering about efficiency, unless we're losing half of your normal MPG on gas when going to ethanol, it's worth it.
And if anyone else talks about efficiency, consider the face that current cars waste a ton of gas just to get the car rolling

I am getting ready to convert my Toyota Tacoma to Ethanol. I don't believe it is the best route (electric would be better) but all other technologies are too expensive or too impractical.
Why am doing this (there might still be problems with ethanol)? Because, even though I think ethanol is just a stop gap measure, I am tired of giving my money to Oil companies who are content to srcew me & every other american every time they get a chance & foreign countries who hate are guts & are willing to kill us at any time. So ethanol has problems. So US farmers will profit. So what!!! The US farmer has been been going under for years. I would much rather give my money to a corn or soybean farmer in my state (he likes me, his money stays here & his crop produces oxygen as it grows) than to a terrorist supporting country.
Like it or not WE have to do something NOW!! Let's bite the bullet, convert some vehicles & go back to the days before WWII when we took care of ourselves & let the rest of the world rot.

The reason I chose Fullflex is because I recieved a two year warranty.

Now for all the dummies making statements about food and corn shortages. I never heard so many silly things in my life. evry ethanol plant has been demographocally placed as so when the starches are removed from the corn the remaining protien rich cornels are then dried and fed to cows pigs and any other livestock that is near by. This is why they build ethanol plants so close to livestock. Jeez, what is the matter with these ignorant people who have all this time to write books in this forum but no time to research the facts.

when our corn crops rise everything will go up...Good then maybe we can stop selling our country off at a bargain basement price and keep our money here in the states where it belongs.
I bought a Fullflex because I was on an airplane, and as we landed a guy was calling his American Express customer service rep., found out that it was a lady in India supporting his needs. American Express contracts Indian companies for less money to support its users.......WTF

Get a clue people when I pay more for my meat and my corn, and I hope everything goes up because I would rather pay more for American goods then send one more dollar to foriegn countries.

I get ten percent less fuel mileage with Ethanol/E85 and i love the way my vehicle runs so smooth and so quiet and when I do my oil changes my oil no longer looks black and nasty. My mechanic says that my engine will last much longer and that gasoline is the worst fuel you could ever use. He has since Bought three Fullflex units for his own vehicles.

The kit above is nice if you just want to convert. The problem is with that kit is all it does is dumps more fuel into the engine. The guys at RunE85.com re-program the computer to take advantage of timing and other fuctions to get more power and better fuel economy.....

E85 conversion kit
Dan Lorenzo ….Lead American engineer for the product Fullflex Gold has devised a bigger better Ethanol conversion kit named ECO-FLEX. The reason for this new design was to develop a better, faster, more responsive ethanol conversion kit that would retail for a lower cost. As lead Engineer for the product Fullflex gold Dan Lorenzo was the prevailing Technician that allowed this product to actually work and run within the parameters necessary to achieve the EPA compliance.
Dan Lorenzo is the Lead Engineer documented on the EPA forms for the product Fullflex Gold…… He found that by using the old analog technology that the performance would be inferior and the cost of this device to the public was far too expensive . By choosing a digital unit that could be developed at a much lesser price, Not only could allow better performance to the vehicle but also allow less of a loss of fuel mileage when using ethanol. It has been documented that a loss of 10% fuel economy was found when using this digital technology and ethanol and a transparent fuel mileage when using gasoline.
This new digital technology is currently being sold world wide with great response from the public.
Dan Lorenzo, CEO of Xpertech Automotive Inc. will continue developing quality products to better serve the American and other countries in this time and need to become less dependant on foreign fuels.
www.fullflexgold.com
1-800-376-6380

I Assure you that you are very incorrect on the working of my products.